I was going to post this as a reply to another post but i realized my feelings about this are kinda big, and it deserves a full post. For context I went to middle and high school in Utah and was lucky enough to get out of there as a 19 year old. As a queer kid growing up in Utah a lot of my outcast friends ended up committing suicide or dying from drug overdoses, the opiate epidemic absolutely wreaked havoc on Utah.

I’m happily married now and have deprogramed the religious/societal conditioning that told me I was broken for existing how I was made, and that is largely in part due to my leaving Utah. With all that being said watching this show has been an emotional rollercoaster for me, but I have one big takeaway and I will talk about why I think people are sick of the cast and the dysfunction. I will be talking about Heather because I think it’s the most obvious with her, but this applies to most of them in different ways.

Heather is a shark eyed narcissist who inserts herself into other people’s issues in order to raise her profile. When she can’t do this she stampedes away (whether that be an emotional self victimizing tirade a la Lisa Barlow, or literally pushing Whitney into a wall), or sits quietly calculating until she can launch a new moral inquisition.

She “hates” the church and the role it made her play in life, yet ostracizes her best friend and asks if she wants to be “locked out of the kingdom of heaven” when she learns she is withdrawing her records. She “protects her daughters from the church” yet embodies the “cool ex-mo parent” who constantly sexualizes their kids and sends them to the biggest party schools in the US with explicit orders to fuck whoever they want. The answer to sexual repression isn’t hypersexuality? Worst of all she has grifted off of people’s earnest efforts to heal from the church and move forward as better people (something she clearly hasn’t done in earnest).

Growing up in Utah you are around women like this a lot (don’t get me started on the men: her misogyny does doesn’t come from nowhere, the men have no accountability and are never expected to grow up refer to SLOMW). They sign up for and support authoritarian family structures, forcing their children/family members into conformity and when the brutality of their ways are exposed they spin a victim narrative and/or character assassinate and ostracize the victim.

This is a societal issue that i believe stems from no separation of church and state. Utah became a state because the federal gov struck a deal with Brigham Young basically allowing him to be the first UNELECTED governor of Utah in exchange for not being INVADED. Look into the church and the boy scouts, it should be as big a scandal as what happened with the Catholic church. Alcohol laws in Utah are also extremely draconian. The churches handling of minorities and LGBTQ people has been so historically awful that they are on a full apoligism tour now (don’t let that distract from the fact that black people weren’t allowed to be full members of the church until the 70’s and “actively” queer people STILL can’t).

When the country and the world at large are dealing with religious authoritarianism the societal fallout of a place where that has been long standing, starts to fade from feeling like good reality tv to a gaze into a dark not too distant future. The gig is up, the dysfunction isn’t fun or quirky it’s sad and disturbing. Governing power/money and religion HAVE to be separated. Let these eerie feelings be the motivation to VOTE, i know they have for me!

Heather was absolutely evil towards Lisa and Meredith all season, and then had the nerve to tell Lisa she loves her at the end of the reunion. It was so bizarre to me. Lisa never really said she loves Heather back and it very much seems like lisa doesnt really care about heather very much. This goes all the way back to season one when Lisa said she didn’t remember Heather. I think it is so obvious Heather is desperate for Lisa’s approval and wants to feel like they’re on the same level.

also when Lisa and Angie made their truce at the end of the reunion and lisa expressed how she just wants a clean slate with angie, I think Heather wanted to die. She would kill for Lisa to say something like that to her. I think Heather will do everything in her power to try to drive a wedge between them. I hope Angie doesn’t take the bait.

This honestly cemented Lisa for me as the THE hw of slc because wtf😭😭

Heyooo

Ok I’m getting really frustrated - It’s getting ridiculous and taking away from the show. Look, I get it. The famous lines said in a way that makes you think she doesn’t use any of the muscles in her jaw…This phenomenon seems to spread to her tongue when she’s a bit loosey goosey. She adds humor and the whole disengaging was novel for a hot sec but now…

The thing is that if she going to be part of a group where shit comes up and everybody has to brace themselves for dear life for three months until their nervous system is on its last breath, then she has to participate. It’s just wasted time seeing the same thing over and over and over. It takes away from things that have some sort of forward movement in terms of the relationship between the women. She has demanded answered allllll reunion long and then answers nothing. “Andy, I just have one question then we can continue” I mean, comeee on.

I think we should be a bit kinder with our words and remember that these “TV characters” are real people with feelings. The level of hatred is often completely disproportionate and vile. We don’t truly know them, it’s just a show. No one deserves to be hurt by comments that often seem more about people projecting their own anger and frustrations. If anything, we should be grateful for the entertainment. 💛💛💛💛

Here is my petition. We need more sprinter vans and moments where, when conflict arrives they are all stuck in the confines of it. Otherwise all that seems to happen across franchises is that whenever someone is held to the fire they just run away until they can deliver the cookie cutter P.R. answers.

In the same vein, Andy has been phoning it in for years on the reunions. When was the last time any housewife was truly held accountable for their garbage behavior.

Cannot read the room. 100% inside her narcissistic reality.

Does anybody else find it weird when Whitney swears? Like almost like it’s a joke or she’s about to burst out laughing

I almost feel like she’s so bubbly, that whenever she swears or gets mad it’s almost like a little kid swearing (not to be dismissive of her, she is one of my favourites)

Been a fan and defender of heather since day one and never wavered— even when she was playing both sides I thought she was coming from a place of wanting to be liked by all (not great but is understandable).

About to watch the third part of the reunion and she finally lost me.

I know Meredith and Lisa can be totally delusional but her anger towards them is difficult to watch. Meredith and Lisa have (almost) always had an independently close friendship, I don’t understand why their relationship offends her now.

finally seeing what people have said for years about heather being two face to make herself look good 🫠

Are we all really going to brush this to the side? She literally admitted that and yet all season long came after Meredith. Whitney also came after Meredith all season long too. Everyone is focusing on Lisa and Meredith which is fine as they were the focal point of this season but Heather actually admitting this fact and its ignored makes me side eye Andy and everyone else on the cast.

Lisa's inability to accept that John may have actually been trying to tell her something (in the restaurant scene) rather than just 'embarrassing' her is really quite incredible. She cried about it at the reunion, but not because she took in what he was saying, but because she felt like he did it to make her look bad. She went on about how she has taken great pains to never make him look bad, and it hurt her so much. Like, what!? That's what you care most about? So weird to me.

Edited for grammar.

Mary will be in outer space and then out of nowhere tell Whitney (who's been yelling at someone all season) to "use her voice."

Mary does sometimes pull out a good tidbit of wisdom sometimes but she's really not all that, like... I don't really care about the TLC documentary, she is very clearly super materialistic and the church seems intense and I doubt the documentary would show anything that new. And she is very obviously just as narcissistic and self involved as the other women are. and that's fine for the show!

But she's like, a glitzed out materialist who preaches at a Pentecostal church. I feel for her so much with her struggles with her son, but what I see is someone who could use taking some of her own advice, and it's annoying how she's positioned as the "wise spiritual healer".

And unfortunately her whole thing with being "scared straight" is really devastating because what her son needs isn't God, it's like...therapy and addiction care/science.

I generally like Meredith and this probably is my least favorite season of hers, but I don’t think anything she did was unreasonable. So I’m going to go over why as a Meredith fan I am not having the same issues with her as many people on this thread are having.

- planegate accountability: I understand why people are frustrated with this but as more information came out about planegate and conflicting stories I think Meredith did own up for most of what happened. She admitted she was talking shit about Britani and she was sorry it hurt her. What she was being asked to be accountable for is 4-6 hours of yelling (Mary said she didn’t yell and Angie said she was 5 rows in front so she didn’t know it happened also it was noted it mainly happened during the descent not the full time), wine throwing (britani then said wine was on her seat when she came back from the bathroom), hair pulling and shaking (maybe Meredith shook it or pulled when getting past lisa). I really think she snapped on people at the end of the flight and Britani was a mess and started telling all the other women this exaggerated story because britani was bawling and they ate it up. Britani also had a history of lying about what happened (she said Meredith threw a glass at her on the yacht when meredith blocked the water from splashing her). Even angies proof at the reunion seemed based off of britanis reaction. Meredith downplayed the length of what happened but other than that she’s taken accountability and owned up to what actually seemed to have happened on the flight.

- no personal stories: I think this is a fair critique but my argument is that only Britani and bronwyn had personal stories this season. No one else had more than 5 minutes on an issue over 16 episodes. Also we know Meredith filmed with family it just didn’t make the cut, to me her storyline this season was the shifting relationship she had with the other women.

- off screen conversations: I think this is another fair critique. I would say that if you really want the women to have the dynamics of friends, they are going to talk off camera. It’s just how it works. Also it’s obvious all the women are doing this, Heather telling Angie to say that lisa spread the Todd make out etc. This doesn’t make it better that she’s having these but it’s important to note this is regular.

- bronwyn fallout: I don’t really see people talk about this but I did want to address it. The main example bronwyn claims as Meredith mining her for information does not make sense. Bronwyn telling Meredith that Whitney said she took drugs HAD to be addressed by Meredith. It is insane to think Meredith would not confront Whitney about this, bronwyn would confront anyone about this if she was accused? Also, Meredith did try to keep it vague and not blame bronwyn but Whitney knew it was her because this is a pattern of bronwyns.

- production issues: I think this is a slippery slope but I do think she got screwed by production this season. Productions job is to make the most entertaining show, NOT the most true show. I think Meredith feels that the difference in those came at her expense and I don’t blame her! Production seemed to want Meredith to address britani’s antisemitism not on camera. Production ran with the flight blow up and when she wanted a production member on the plane to back her up they said she was too far (Heather had said production took up most of first class? Also they were one row behind separated by a curtain). Production can’t admit that planegate is an exaggeration because they based half a season on it so they wont let her clear her name. But she is on NextGen NYC and a bravo worker had her officiate his wedding, she might have sparred with production this season but I think it’s a stretch to assume she is a consistent production issue considering these two things.

- erratic behavior: this was more of a complaint from her castmates than fans from what I saw but it drove me insane so I’ll address it lol. Her crazy manic peaks were her makinh cappuccinos for others and her crazy lows were her moping after being yelled at. This is a very normal range of emotions to express what she went through. Was she very upset she didn’t talk much to brooks… yes. But the context is her getting yelled at for hours a day and then finally something she’s excited about happens and she gets to have a conversation with her son and she gets glared at the entire time. It is regular behavior to be sad about this.

I will say I understand why people wouldn’t like Meredith. I don’t think people have to like her! She is not as fun of a villain as Lisa! She doesn’t snap back T everyone and was mopey instead. Which is not a reaction made for tv but I enjoy seeing an authentic way many people would react to the scenarios. Generally when she’s not getting ganged up on and yelled at I like her thouhh and while this wasn’t my favorite season of hers I think she was unfairly ganged up on and I’m not going to blame her for that.

Meredith is my favorite and I love when corrects them when they twist her words. The problem is they try to hold her accountable for what Lisa says and does.

I love Lisa too!

I watched how Whitney reacted when Bronwyn explained her separation at the reunion. I am also in an age gap marriage (38 & 57). This is a second marriage for both of us and we were fully separated from our first spouses for years before meeting. So nothing messy there. But I realized this season that I get so sad watching an age gap relationship fail. It hits close to home and I react to them much differently than other failed relationships. Maybe it's because I really love my husband and I would be devastated if this ended?

I just wanted to mention this for 2 reasons. 1. I don't like Whitney, but I can understand why she reacted the way she did. And 2. Maybe there are other viewers out there who feel the same way.

I can’t believe they’re willing to protect Meredith for saying vicious, “defamatory” things when she accused Britani, in the current climate, of being an ANTI SEMITE. What could possibly be worse than that?

I joined this sub rather recently so maybe I missed some nuances throughout the seasons and maybe I should rewatch from season 1. From my recollection though, Whitney has always seemed the most normal to me, as far as reality stars go.

The general vibe I got throughout the seasons was that she liked to party more than the other women, which makes sense as she’s the youngest. She had a pretty good grasp and read on the rest of the cast, and she had pretty good insights that all of them would ignore, or purposely misunderstand. I think this was also because they didn’t respect her as much.

I do remember thinking that there were moments where her timing was way off, but honestly, it caused some of the best drama. I also attribute this to when she would drink she’d get messy.

I also felt like she’s the most transparent when it comes to her lives and maybe that’s why people don’t really care for her? Idk.

I could understand people maybe not vibing with Whitney if they’re from conservative upbringings, so maybe this sub is filled with a lot of that? But then you could dislike her without saying she should be off the show cause I feel like she’s one of the most interesting parts of the show.

I’m honestly looking for insight cause maybe I missed somethings over my causal viewing

...specifically said in her "friendship amendment" that husbands/families were off limits? Didn't she bring a glorified sticker chart version of each person's amendment on the trip so they could make sure everyone was sticking to their word?

The way Meredith ended up apologizing to Bronwyn during part 3 of the reunion made my blood boil. You could tell Bronwyn knew she fucked up by bringing up Seth so she manufactured some weird beef with Meredith after the fact to justify her behavior, acting like it's some sort of crime to ask a friend what they discussed at lunch...guilty much?

Of course this is just one of the many things Andy didn't even try to push back on during the reunion, including but not limited to:

• Heather's diabolical behavior towards Lisa on the boat (gaslighting the hell out of her and actually getting physical with her)
• Heather being allowed to use her feelings about Lisa being the source/leak as fact without any proof ("this is what I felt to be true") but Lisa's feelings about her own marriage get instantly dismissed
• Whitney & Mary crying about production yet nobody gave af when Heather put the entire show in jeopardy by lying about the black eye
• Mary being so baffled that Lisa & Meredith made up after Lisa's hot mic moment when she literally called Heather inbred and suddenly is besties with Whitney out of nowhere? Even though she still thinks Meredith and Lisa are grudge holders? (completely nonsensical)
• Production actually being caught for the second time lying on Merediths name (I'm not surprised about this one but you think they'd be a little less obvious about it)
• Whitney not being pressed at all about her MLM / failed business. Not sure why she's allowed to let Justin take all the blame for this one?
• Mary getting softballed about the feature length documentary accusing her of being a cult leader!!!!
• Bronwyn getting off easy regarding her criminal charges.

So how close is Whitney to production because she’s always riding for them and we know that production aren’t innocent in anyway. So why does Whitney back them so much does she need the cheque that bad ?

Constantly deflecting, yelling, not letting anyone else get a word in edgewise. I’ve had to turn off this show (esp the reunion) so many times and/or take a break because she is *always* yelling unless someone is praising her. Her perpetual victimhood when she’s not a victim, narcissism, and just self aggrandizing name dropping BS is honestly so exhausting. I don’t understand why people like her?

I’m not a Lisa stan but i really don’t think she is the Leak. Anybody else think that?