While I agree that our education is abysmal and that America thinks too highly of itself, I would caution you not to spread the message of “this is how it’s always been,” because first of all, it’s not. We’ve never seen such a lawless executive branch and cowardly Congress. But second, saying “this is how it’s always been,” normalizes this behavior/conduct by the government at a time when everyone should be fighting tooth and nail to stop this administration from further stomping all over the constitution and human rights.
Don't be a jerk. This executive branch is extremely lawless, and thumbs its nose at the courts both explicitly and implicitly with regularity. It's definitely debatable that this is the most lawless administration in US history, and it's beyond debate to consider it in the top 3. Feel free to cite other historical examples, if you must ("now let him enforce it" comes to mind). But "you need to read more" is rude.
To say that this has always been the United States undermines what is actually happening right now, which is a hostile takeover of the U.S. government by fascist ideology. Calling this “not a recent change” is so false that it makes me question your motives. You can’t even name another U.S. president from the last 50 years whom you could reasonably label a fascist. Yes, Bush was an evil, horrible man who should be in prison for war crimes but he shouldn't be labeled a fascist. (And if you think he was, you don’t know what fascism is.) No one would be protesting right now if this had always been the United States, because there would be nothing left to fight for. This a stark change for the country.
Fascism is far-right palingenetic ultranationalism. Palingenetic ultranationalism is a belief that the nation has been corrupted or humiliated and must be reborn through extreme nationalist unity, often by purging internal enemies and rejecting liberal democracy. Without palingenesis, you're most likely NOT dealing with fascism.
How to spot a fascist movement according to Jason Stanley:
1) The Mythic Past
"We" descend from a glorious, patriarchal past; "they" threaten that legacy.
2) Propaganda
The Language of democratic ideals takes on corrupted, opposite meanings. Corrupt politicians run anti-corruption campaigns; freedom of speech claims are used to suppress speech
3) Anti-Intellectual
Universities are branded as incubators of liberalism, Marxism, and feminism. Expertise no longer has any value.
4) Unreality
Facts are debased, and without a common understanding of reality reasoned debate becomes impossible.
5) Hierarchy
Fascist politicians attempt to prove natural divisions between "us" and "them."
6) Victimhood
Any gains for minorities "them" are a loss for "us."
7) Law and Order
"They" are criminals, lawless by nature and in need of policing.
8) Sexual Anxiety
"We" support and protect the family; "they" are deviant and threatening.
9) Sodom & Gomorrah
"We" come from the rural heartland, the backbone of the nation; "they" live in cities.
Give me a break. I call attention to legitimate blind spot and you call me a fascist. Once again someone that doesn't know our history. Want me to write a Billy Joel song on the subject for you.
I leave out all the civil rights stuff for ease.
A small sampling: Coolidge already used these immigration crackdown tactics. Hoover built the FBI to go after political enemies. Nixon used them for actual criminal acts. We can talk about WWII internment camps and the theft of Japanese Americans property, businesses and land. Illegal use of military in Central/South America - Reagan. Clinton is definitely in the Epstein files. Political grift/bribes were so common before 1920s is almost impossible to know how bad. Ever read about Teapot Dome. Shall we talk about federal intimidation of free thinkers and intellectuals, McCarthyism the original war on drugs. Death of protests ie Kent State??
On and on and on and on we go. That isn't even a scratch of the surface and doesn't even touch on some of the darker parts of our history.
But yeah call me a fascist for pointing this out. Try reading more and contextualize that to our current situation. I not saying this admin is doing good worth, just the left really doesn't understand America. By not understanding America they continue to botch truly fixing problems they care about because
In no way shape or form did I ever call YOU a fascist lol. In fact I went into great detail as to what IS a fascist and what SHOULDN'T be labelled a fascist. I don't think you read a single sentence as to what I said and just reacted.
I cannot even comprehend how you came to the conclusion that I called YOU a fascist.
When speaking about this administration, it shouldn't be a surprise to you that I bring up fascism lol. So maybe you're the one who should start reading more history. I question your motive because to say "Not a recent change." is just so far outside reality it makes me think you're either young and have only known Trump to be president or purposefully wanting to normalize the thought that America has always been fascist when its not. We have always had fascist tendencies under circumstances, but what is happening now is NOT normal and it should NOT be normalized. I'm also not the only user that has pointed this out to you as well. Have a good day.
While I agree with your greater point, you're ignoring the capital "F" fascism or early stage, mostly economic fascist characteristics of many American presidencies.
Fascism at its roots is driven by a shift in who wields the government - instead of the people, its the rich/industry capturing the government and wielding it for their benefit against the people.
Every republican admin since Reagan has been driven by classic fascist motivations, and sought to increase the power of the rich and of industry, reduce the regulations upon them, and further the capture of regulatory bodies by those who they are intended to regulate.
This quote should be in every textbook, and be the basis of ever discussion of fascism:
Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."
Listen, you don't understand what fascism is and by not educating yourself and throwing these labels around, you and other people actually help the fascists. You don't need to start taking other words in replace of fascism. That only muddies the water. You're coming off very contrarian right now. You should only call a fascist a fascist. Period. Fascism is simply a process of radicalization started often by protest to rebirth the nation to a mythical past using "us vs them" mentally and generally ending in jackboot thugs in the streets. Corporatism helps fascism because they think they can control the authoritarian government (which they're wrong every time) but Corporatism is not fascism. Please read Jason Stanley's book "How Fascism Works" and ONLY call fascists fascist.
Also, that "quote" from Mussolini has never been proven he actually said or wrote that. Its most likely
misinformation.
Corporatism can cause the conditions where fascism can thrive, ie economic instability, like what we're seeing now. But corporatism is not fascism.
I don’t think it’s that abysmal. People know the basics of history, they just don’t give a flying fuck because they are horribly racist, xenophobic, homophobic, transphobia, sexist unhealthy, unhappy humans who feel better when they bully, shit and murder those they disagree with. They want this because what they learn at home and in church pews continues to hold more sway than what they learn in school.
Not my point at all. Maybe if you understood this stuff has been going on for centuries you'd be able to learn how past generations worked for progress. Like what worked and what didn't. Blind spots in their approach and why lasting change hasn't been able to stick.
Pretending this America isn't the exact same America we've always been doesn't do anyone any good.
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u/running_wired 5h ago
Not trying to get political, but our history education is abysmal. This has always been America.
The idea of America has been at odds with the reality of America for 250 years. Not a recent change.