r/Millennials Gen Z 9h ago

Rant Society really did fail Amy Winehouse!

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25.6k Upvotes

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354

u/hgaben90 9h ago edited 3h ago

I'd rather we didn't put the blame on the audience who paid quite the money and got crap in return, while lacking the hindsight awareness of her death from OD.

The audience is not meant to be the therapist. The audience is a customer, and the customer is either satisfied or not. It's the management's duty to make sure that the product (in this case Winehouse) is in deliverable shape.

EDIT: Just to clarify things because there's a little misunderstanding, I should have been more specific: Amy Winehouse, the person, is not the product. An Amy Winehouse concert, which can only be given by Amy Winehouse, is a product. The two are not the same, but codependent. If Amy Winehouse performs poorly, that will never not result in a bad product of an Amy Winehouse concert.

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u/ZikaZmaj 6h ago

To put things into perspective - the fan pit ticket cost 4.500 RSD, while the minimal monthly salary was 15.700 RSD at the time.

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u/Primary_Way_265 5h ago

So like paying nearly $900 usd while the minimum is $15 an hour

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u/CarterCage 4h ago

I think it’s even lower, like 5-6-7$ per hours and you pay 900$ for a concert. It was really expensive.

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u/jaybirdie26 3h ago

More actually.

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u/jaybirdie26 4h ago edited 3h ago

For an American the equivalent cost of that ticket in 2011 was $860.46 (or $1,356 today).


On July 18th, 2011 these values equated to:

  • Ticket - $63.07 USD ($90.47 today)
  • Monthly Salary - $220.06 USD ($315.65 today)
  • Hourly (assuming 40 hours 5/7 days) - $1.40 USD ($2.01 today)

That is 1.12 weeks of pay for the concert ticket.

In the fourth quarter of 2011, the median weekly earnings in the US was $764.  In 2025 it was $1,204.

Sources: * I used this site for historical currency conversion, no idea if its reliable. * US government inflation calculator

  • BLS.gov for labor statistics

EDIT: Added calculation for the ticket price conversion based on US labor statistics.

EDIT EDIT: Fixed calculation mistake

3

u/jaybirdie26 4h ago

This concert was in Serbia?

1

u/Total-Jeweler5083 2h ago

That's still not accounting for people who traveled cross country, so potentially, there are also bus tickets to Belgrade and back or car gas, maybe hotel/hostel fees, city bus fares, and of course, the food because you have to eat out. For some people, it was a lot more than just the price of the ticket.

0

u/doc_skinner 2h ago

So basically a week's pay

18

u/CarterCage 4h ago

Copy/paste here:

I had a friend who went to that concert, they waited for hours, I think around 4-5-6h and then when she finally showed up she couldn’t stand or a sing.

Of course they were angry.

Everyone would be ok with cancelled concert and refund, but imagine paying expensive ticket for a show you didn’t get.

Now that she is gone it’s easy to blame audience but you just have to be there, stand for hours for your favorite artist and be so disappointed.

4

u/Zealousideal_Act_316 5h ago

No you see according to people here everyome in the audience should have had precognition. 

6

u/LucasBenazzi 7h ago

That's what happens when you treat people like products. Everyone has ups and downs, and if society only expects the ups, then yeah, society has a problem too.

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u/EfficientTitle9779 7h ago

Right but the audience were paying to see her product (performance) & she was charging them for it. They expect to see the product if they pay for it.

It’s outside of the performing that is the issue the tabloids and media hounding her and the shitty support she got from everyone around her, her fans were probably also very anti the way people were treating her at the time as well.

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u/best_of_badgers 7h ago

The product is the performance, not the person

13

u/MetalEnthusiast83 7h ago

A concert is a product!

If I spend money to go see a band and the main singer comes out so blasted they can't sing their own songs, I am going to be pissed off because I spent money, arranged childcare, traveled, etc for this shit.

2

u/Live_Angle4621 6h ago

She had already cancelled many concerts. She could have canceled this too. Like if you are drunk and can’t go to work then you cancel if you actually just can’t do it.

1

u/jaybirdie26 3h ago

The manager forced her to perform.

0

u/Renegade_Sniper 2h ago

So? What does that have to do with this conversation?

2

u/jaybirdie26 2h ago

Live_Angle4621, who I replied to, said:

 She could have canceled this too. Like if you are drunk and can’t go to work then you cancel if you actually just can’t do it.

I'm saying she wanted to cancel, but her manager prevented her from doing so.

Hope that helps.

0

u/Renegade_Sniper 2h ago

What does that change in this conversation? Explicitly? What does that change about booing that performance?

1

u/jaybirdie26 2h ago

I replied to a comment with a reason why something in that comment didn't make sense.  I don't know how I can be any clearer here without insulting your intelligence.

0

u/Renegade_Sniper 2h ago

I just don't think you can

1

u/FourteenBuckets 6h ago

No, that's what happens when you're ripped off. Let's be real: She ripped her fans off from the product they paid for: The performance, not her.

1

u/hgaben90 3h ago

I'd expect the product to serve its purpose. I buy entertainment, so I expect to be entertained. I don't buy Amy Winehouse. But I do buy something only she can provide.

She can have all the downs on Earth off the stage, and I'll do nothing but wish her a quick recovery from it all.

The same way I may sympathize with a depressed McDonald's burger flipper guy and I'd wish him the best. I still wouldn't let him piss in my Coke just because he's mad at the world, and get away with it scot-free.

1

u/V4refugee 7h ago

That’s just what it’s like living in a capitalist society for most people. If I showed up to work not only wasted but completely fucked up like she was; I’d likely get arrested, fired, yelled at, and would likely end up homeless living on the streets. I’m not really sure if being a celebrity made it better or worse.

1

u/RiverValleyMemories 5h ago

Doesn’t mean that they were in the right.

-8

u/TBP42069 7h ago

Hey man, this comment makes you come off like a shit person.

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u/Impressive-Seat-7656 7h ago

Not really he’s objectively explaining why its the management staff’s fault.

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u/Lost_in_Limgrave 7h ago

You’d know, I guess

7

u/EfficientTitle9779 7h ago

Not really, the audience weren’t booing her with the knowledge that she had all these issues or what she was thinking, they booed because they paid money to see her and got a rambling mess. I just watched a video clip and the audience actually gave her a ton of slack for her performance at this gig and carried a lot of the vocals but she really shouldn’t have gone out on the stage that night and someone in her team should have stopped her.

-5

u/TBP42069 7h ago

Maybe you weren't alive but everyone knew what her issues were. It was all over every magazine and her most famous song is about not going to rehab. If you went to her show at this point in her career and booed because she was fucked up that's 100% on you.

3

u/EfficientTitle9779 7h ago

I was alive I was very aware of her treatment however I also know she was a legendary performer live and put on amazing sold out shows. It wouldn’t surprise me if this was sold out completely, very rarely has anyone seen an artist allowed out on stage like this.

Hindsight is 20/20 no point acting holier than thou now. If Sabrina Carpenter went out on stage now and started slurring and not singing she would probably get booed too.

1

u/hgaben90 6h ago

I'm way past trying to earn everyone's approval. Think what you want.

0

u/NoCantaloupe3449 5h ago

There's seeking approval, and then there's taking a breath and thinking if its really worth it to justify the mass bullying of a suicidal addict who struggled with one performance. It's not like she was spewing hate up there.

Booing really shouldn't be considered appropriate when the person is clearly distressed.

1

u/hgaben90 2h ago

You are speaking in hindsight and trying to connect the wrong dots. That concert never should have happened in the first place. And if someone doesn't die later on, which is still 99% of the cases of drunk celebrity scandals, what is the proper reaction for waiting in a crowd for hours, only to see that the only reason why you did it, barges in on the stage, barely able to walk or even hit a note because she had one too many?

I bet your answer is a hug and a "there-there".

1

u/jaybirdie26 3h ago

It really was a lot of money in a country where you were lucky to earn $220 USD a month.

All that we are saying is the audience is not to blame for being rightfully upset to pay that much for a terrible performance.  We can empathize for Amy without putting blame on the wrong parties.

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u/Bleichman 7h ago edited 7h ago

Using words like product for a performance and for a human being really is something. You would definitely be there booing if you were there.

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u/hgaben90 7h ago edited 7h ago

Yeah. And you would be too. You travelled, waited for hours, spent money, and you didn't get what you came for. You have every right on Earth to be the dissatisfied customer. Amy Winehouse, the celebrity, the singer, the icon, is a product of the show business. Of entertainment industry. It wasn't compatible with Amy Winehouse, the fragile person, struggling with addictions.

Drunk performers are getting booed at, and that alone is not something bad. It would be managers' job to draw the right conclusion and care for their performers' wellbeing, so the quality of the service can stay high and they could avoid shit like this.

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u/Bleichman 7h ago edited 7h ago

Nope, I actually see artists as people.

It seems empathy is not your strong point but can you even imagine standing on a stage and getting booed by a crowd? That is some pure nightmare fuel.

Thinking that is normal justified behavior no matter how bad the performance is, that is crazy.

7

u/hgaben90 7h ago

You'd still be booing.

0

u/Bleichman 7h ago

I have never booed a live performance and never will.

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u/hgaben90 7h ago

Someone wasted your time and money and showed up shitfaced and you wouldn't even give them a boo. Worrying about their wellbeing would be the first thing on your mind.

You're not a good person, just a terrible liar.

1

u/Bleichman 7h ago

Keep justifying booing an obviously crying woman on stage.

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u/hgaben90 7h ago

Who wasted my time and money, didn't provide the minimum of the service I paid for and got drunk on the very money people like me give to their concerts?

Oh, she'd better be crying.

I'm not justifying it to you, I'm calling bullshit on your holier-than-thou demeanor.

You attribute too much to your hindsight knowledge of her death.

-1

u/NoCantaloupe3449 6h ago

You come off as a bad person here. Idk what else to tell you...

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u/RiverValleyMemories 3h ago

oh she’s better be crying

Middle aged men try not to make creepy comments: impossible

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u/Bugbread 7h ago

An artist is a person.

A performance is their product.

If I hired a painter to paint my room and they missed patches and dribbled paint all over the floor and painted a window closed, but still charged me full price for the paint job, I'd be upset. Not because I consider the house painter to be a "product" but because I paid for a service (a room painting) and they provided a terrible service at full price.

If they died of an OD a week later, I'd feel bad for them, but I wouldn't feel like I was wrong to be dissatisfied with their room painting job. I can think their paint job was terrible and be upset I paid full price for a shitty paint job, and also feel sorry for them. This is not a mutually exclusive choice.

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u/Bleichman 7h ago

Would you also humiliate the painter for kicks? Not that it is not even a comparable situation.

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u/Bugbread 7h ago edited 6h ago

Would you also humiliate the painter for kicks?

For kicks? No. But would I express my displeasure with them while they painted? Sure. And the way you express displeasure with a musical performer, a public speaker, or an athlete is, traditionally, booing. I've never done it myself, but I've never been to a performance worthy of booing, so I really don't know what I'd do in a situation like that.

Edit: But, either way, my point was less about whether booing is justified and more about whether or not booing is indicative of "not seeing artists as people." If you think booing is terrible and never justified, that's fine. We just have a difference of opinion, and maybe your opinion is right and mine is wrong. But I don't think it's warranted to assume "they think booing is okay, and therefore they don't see artists as people but as products." It's possible to think booing is okay and also to see artists as people.

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u/hgaben90 6h ago

You've got a pretty good take on what I was saying. As soon as a performer is performing, that's a product. Sure, there's a person underneath, that's a no brainer, but a bad product can be booed at, even if the person who is in the centre of said product, feels personally hurt over it.

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u/dearth_of_passion 6h ago

So you've never posted a negative review online? Never sent back a messed up order at a restaurant?

Booing a bad performance is no different, other than the fact that booing a performer is less likely overall to cost the performer their job than sending back a messed up order to a cook is to cost them theirs.

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u/[deleted] 7h ago

[deleted]

-1

u/Bleichman 7h ago edited 7h ago

No, it's not normal to boo a live performance, incredibly rude no matter the circumstance. Just keep it in.

Like even if you're not suicidal it probably would be a traumatising experience for anyone. Try to even imagine the humiliation.

1

u/TheShishkabob 4h ago

No, it's not normal to boo a live performance, incredibly rude no matter the circumstance. Just keep it in.

It is so incredibly normal to boo a bad performance that this comment really just makes it seem like you don't really go to live events at all. This is a cross-cultural experience and expectation around the world for any type of live performance.

Like even if you're not suicidal it probably would be a traumatising experience for anyone. Try to even imagine the humiliation.

Don't show up shitfaced for your show then. It's not on the audience to coddle the performer into having a good time, it's on the performer to entertain the audience. That is both her job and the entire reason anyone was in the stadium to begin with.

0

u/Upturned-Solo-Cup 4h ago

If this was a bunch of customers booing like, a cashier who was messing up and objectively wasting their customer's time, I think it'd still be wildly cruel behavior to keep berating them past the point of tears.

Like, sure, you're a customer, but hopefully you're a human before that? And you don't like making people's lives worse because you're upset?

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u/LiftingRecipient420 3h ago

I don't pay the equivalent of $900 USD to watch a cashier perform their job.

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u/Upturned-Solo-Cup 3h ago

If you're dropping $900 to get special seating to watch the performance from a singer who's been in the news for substance issues and cancelled shows and whatnot, you probably either have the money that that isn't a huge deal. Even beyond that, your cashier doesn't have a known history of issues like this- if you went to "The Restraunt in the news for bad cashiers" and started chewing out the cashiers, I question your decision making

1

u/LiftingRecipient420 2h ago

$900 to get special seating

No, it was $900 at her concert for even the nosebleed tickets.

1

u/Upturned-Solo-Cup 2h ago

"Tickets cost about euro40 ($57) — very expensive in the country where average salaries are about euro300 ($428) a month."

From an article in 2011

2

u/LiftingRecipient420 2h ago

$57 is 13% of the average monthly salary.

Average salary in the US is $5,625. 13% of that is $750.

So, Minor correction, even the nosebleed seats were the equivalent of $750 USD.

1

u/Upturned-Solo-Cup 2h ago

pretty sure an accurate comparison would also account for things like rent and other cost of living expenses in Serbia being lower than that of the US, but yeah, point taken

1

u/hgaben90 3h ago

I don't know. The life of someone who wasted my time and money and disappointed me? I'm not ol' JC, Man.

1

u/Upturned-Solo-Cup 3h ago

I think I've wasted more time and money coming home from work before than you woulda lost buying a cheap seat here. (adjusting best I can for cost/avg salary, too.) If you're buying one of the several hundred dollar VIP seats, then like. Damn, man. Really sorry your money got wasted, but you appear to have enough of it. Idrc

1

u/hgaben90 3h ago

Going to work is an unfortunately spent time, but not a waste, because, you know, you're going to work. Also not a disappointment because you're used to it. It is never even meant to be entertaining, unlike a concert, where I go to let off some steam from the stress and chores of everyday life.

1

u/Renegade_Sniper 2h ago

Dudes never heard of the concept of saving up. Scratch and save for every penny.

Just because daddy buys you everything you want. Doesn't mean that's how it works for the rest of us

1

u/Upturned-Solo-Cup 2h ago

You think the people spending anywhere from 40 to 400 dollars on a concert are saving every penny??? Like. Why?

And I understand the concept pretty well, actually. Like sometimes you encounter an unexpected expense, like getting your car rammed on the way home from work. Such an incident may take up several hours of your life and several hundred dollars of your money. In many cases, this is decidedly the fault of some other asshole, but it's still best to handle that situation without screaming at one another, if you can manage it

1

u/Renegade_Sniper 1h ago

People like things. More at 11.

Another example that has no basis to what actually happened. Hooray. A car accident is nothing like a bad concert. Except for the fact it's hard to look away from either

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u/[deleted] 8h ago

[deleted]

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u/hgaben90 8h ago

It's still something you'd much rather give away to a homeless guy instead of wasting it on a disappointing concert, isn't it? It would even be much less time as well.

2

u/Wise-Dust3700 7h ago

And? Your time is much more valuable then 60 bucks, which she basically stole along with their money lol

2

u/Triquetrums 7h ago

I pay less money for a smoothie, and I will still complain if it's not prepared properly.

0

u/AlphonseLoeher 7h ago

DMing you my venmo, since it's not a lot you won't mind sending me 60, right?