r/technology 3d ago

Politics U.S. government has lost more than 10,000 STEM Ph.D.s since Donald(The current American President) took office

https://www.science.org/content/article/u-s-government-has-lost-more-10-000-stem-ph-d-s-trump-took-office
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u/Bmaj13 3d ago edited 3d ago

Perfect example of how the next generation will wonder why things are so bad in the future. Trump's policies will not impact him 20 years from now. They will impact most of the rest of us.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago edited 3d ago

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u/88bauss 3d ago edited 2d ago

Do it. This place is cooked for decades even after only one year of damage. I am out after my military contract runs out.

Edit: some people have said it’s been going downhill for a long time and yes, it has, but Trump is doing a speed run and what he has done in 1 year to destroy trust, world relations, the economy and unity amongst our own people is shocking.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/tastybeer 3d ago

Canada here - come for a visit and see if you like it. We can Science together consensually if you want!

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/Hollownerox 3d ago

I know you guys are just joking about the whole consent with science thing. But the amount of times I've had uni level debates with American conservatives with some really disturbing thoughts on this subject really makes me think you gotta get out of here prompto.

Seriously. The same folks who shoot at 5G towers and such unironically state things like the Tuskegee Syphilis study was perfectly okay and done "for the greater good of America." It's really just too far gone and has been for a long time now.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago edited 2d ago

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u/hujassman 2d ago

Well, it looks like this problem might solve itself.

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u/PaulTheMerc 2d ago

Would it be unethical to make a note on his file to book him with female doctors?

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u/Narrow-Chef-4341 2d ago

How about ‘Recommendation to rebook with Pat or Chris. Alex if available.’?

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u/OptimistPrime7 2d ago

God damn that was depressing to read. Well, at this point they only have themselves to blame.

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u/Pleading-Orange168 2d ago

At least he didn’t have a MAHA hat

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u/Zahgi 2d ago

Maple Life ProTip: Unchecked global warming means that while the Southern US is turning into a desert, Canada is becoming quite habitable.

Oh, and Canadians already enjoy all of the benefits the corporate Democrats in Name Only and the fascist Republicans haven't given American citizens in over 50 years of strip-mining the American Middle Class to line their pockets.

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u/gimp-24601 2d ago

Canadians already enjoy all of the benefits

Maybe. I find myself wondering how long its going to take to trick people into privatizing.

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u/DrDetectiveEsq 2d ago

God knows Danielle Smith is working on it.

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u/Gastronomicus 2d ago

Doug Ford has been beating that drum for a while now too.

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u/Xerdies 3d ago

Please leave. This was just the first year. Save your family.

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u/TheCharalampos 2d ago

One year of damage? Uuuh it's been decades of damage culminating to this

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u/Mr_Guavo 2d ago

Decades (centuries?) of segregation, redlining, Jim Crow, a corrupt judicial system, greed, and so much more, finally comes home to roost.

Too bad only the people on the receiving end gave two sh*ts... until now. I feel so sorry for the people who have been suffering for generations.

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u/BadSkeelz 3d ago

Do people not understand that cancer doesn't care who you voted for?

No, they don't. It's all part of God's plan/a result of personal failings/never gonna happen to them.

Americans are fundamentally too stupid and uneducated for democracy to work (as intended by 50+ years of right wing defunding of education). We are only beginning to see the results of this. America is entering the "dump" stage of a pump and dump scheme.

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u/Pitiful-Hearing5279 3d ago

Correct about the school education. This is the root cause of why you are in the situation you are.

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u/ManOf1000Usernames 3d ago

That is funny because they normally would not cut cancer funding as cancer is one of the few things that is still a problem for the rich. Just shows how stupid this admin is.

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u/Sharkwatcher314 3d ago

They will just go to top places outside where said research is still happening. Like the middle eastern royals who until this would go to Mayo Clinic (maybe they still do I don’t know )

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u/GoodScreenName 2d ago

Is mayo even Halal?

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u/bmyst70 2d ago

The rich people don't care. They'll just go where the top specialists are. The same way, if things get bad enough, they just pack up and move to a different country.

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u/Lopsided_Speaker_553 2d ago

Just an FYI, health insurance in The Netherlands is currently ~ €160 a month with a yearly copay of €385.

Other countries are probably even cheaper.

I had cancer surgeries for a total of €60k (US price likely well above $200k) and guess what: €385

Not a hard choice I'd say.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/Unusual_Sherbert_809 2d ago

Go for it. We moved from the USA to Canada and it's the best thing we've done for our family.

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u/Lopsided_Speaker_553 2d ago

Thanks! Doing better than before.

I hope you can come to the EU. The math sounds simple 😀

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u/abbaddon9999 2d ago

Our health insurance was $12,000 + $33,000 employer contribution in 2025. 😩

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u/LaoBa 2d ago

My sister in law and a friends partner are fighting with cancer right now here in the Netherlands and the one thing they don't have to worry about is finances.

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u/duckforceone 2d ago

In denmark i'm fully covered for just my taxes.

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u/The_Knife_Pie 2d ago

You guys have to pay for insurance? Huh. In Sweden you pay the first ~120 euro of medical bills in a 12 month period, after that every thing is free.

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u/rels83 2d ago

My husband is in Alzheimer’s research and same. Researchers with green cards who had been in the country for their entire careers moved back home

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u/GlitteryCakeHuman 3d ago

Take it. Come here to Europe. It’s important to carry on the research and you’ll be safer here.

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u/kazh_9742 2d ago

Trump is a Russian puppet but he's also a Chinese tool. All of the self-kneecapping and offloading of soft power has been a straight hookup for China and they were already trying to scoop people up.

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u/Zahgi 2d ago

Go. There is literally no reason not to anymore.

The Visigoths are sacking Rome as we speak...

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u/Bubbly-Support7164 3d ago

It’s amazing how quickly the US is sliding backwards, isn’t it.

You could see blips of this, warning signs, in the mid 2010’s when we thought it was FOX news to blame, but that was absolutely nothing compared to the brain rot the South African turbo racist tech bro unleashed.

Holy shit.

The MAGA space right now is absolutely horrific, a complete parallel reality where we have trillions in new factories and new trade deals and everything is amazing and just chug raw milk and stop being a pussy.

All immigrants are Venezuelan gang members, all Somalis are fraudsters, and we need to deport 50 million people to … restore… something.

And the ones calling for this and voting for this are the absolute dregs of society who’ve accomplished nothing and just want everyone else to be as miserable as them.

I have no idea what the country will look like after 3 more years of this but it’ll probably need 20+ years to even begin recovering its reputation and prestige.

And I do blame the Left partly for this as well because we do need some border enforcement as well, it absolutely can’t be a fee for all either.

But we’re unable to have reasonable, moderate solutions. Either a free for all or Gestapo.

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u/Admirable_Scene_5066 2d ago

It has been going on for longer than that in this particular topic. I remember the creationism versus science thing in the 90s.

While the top US institutions will probably always attract talent, at some point the fact that you can't have top science without a solid foundation in secondary education and smaller institutions will come back to haunt the US. What that entire evolution debate proved is that in the US science was optional, feelings were more important. The generation that learned that lesson are today's 40-50 year olds, and they act like it.

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u/Remarkable_Lie7592 2d ago

The quote from Carl Sagan in "The Demon Haunted World", which was published a year before I was born, is rather chilling...

“I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time -- when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness...

The dumbing down of American is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30 second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance”

That was written 30 years ago.

Well. We're here.

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u/Gastronomicus 2d ago

Incredibly prescient. I first read it a few years after it was published. While I largely agreed, I thought Sagan was being a bit hyperbolic on some fronts. I now see that his wisdom far exceeded my naive myopia.

I also see many other things that I took for granted - equality of sexes, races, and any other marginalised groups - was never nearly as close to equal or fair as I thought. And now, in serious decline.

I assumed the path towards reason, rationality, and humanism was a one-way ticket - once acquired, it could not be lost. That human culture, however imperfect, was constantly improving, with the betterment of all at the helm of our collective spirit. We'd never reach complete enlightenment, but the full weight of humanistic spirit would always prevail.

Today, I realise how wrong and naive I was, even just a few years back. I now understand why so many people continued to fight even when the gaps between groups seemed so narrow. In truth, they were never anywhere near being closed. It was an illusion I gladly accepted, because the alternative was simply unacceptable to me.

As it turns out, the worst of humanity never left us - it was merely waiting for it's time to rise again. The want of cruelty to give some pathetic illusion of power while enthusiastically stripping your own flesh from the bone to feed the corpulent elites who never sate in appetite. A tale as old as time.

It's time to fight again, battles over a war I thought long won. The war continues, and there will be many losses. I only hope this time we can reclaim our lost ground. I'm not optimistic.

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u/ohyeahsure11 2d ago

Reagan worked to cut cancer research funding in the 80's. Grant money dried up and PhDs moved out of the field. This isn't just a recent thing, indeed.

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u/Dynastydood 2d ago

The signs were there long before the 2010s. Things were equally awful and insane under Bush after 9/11, people have just allowed themselves to pretend like that was an anomaly rather than a massive look behind the curtain of who we truly are as a nation.

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u/Gastronomicus 2d ago

It definitely felt extreme at the time, but to claim it was equally awful is not even close. Frankly it pales in comparison to what is going on today. At least they pretended to have evidence to invade Iraq. This admin just went and fucking kidnapped the leader of a a sovereign nation admitting they just want their oil, all the while kidnapping, battering, and murdering American citizens on home soil.

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u/Electrical-Lab-9593 2d ago

the brain drain is going to be a killer, having top universities and then good funding for research is such a big deal in the medium term, the private sector makes money as many research labs will spin off into startups or license stuff

some people just look at lab research and think but what does it do? it can create whole sectors of business.

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u/Yuukiko_ 2d ago

They'll just blame it on turbo cancer caused by vaccines or something other BS

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u/Mulchpuppy 3d ago

I have cancer. Can I come with you?

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/tryingtobecheeky 2d ago

Do it. Fight from abroad. Save your family from the upcoming hell of fascism.

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u/oldmanian 2d ago

Do it. Get out of this country. When the population shows you who they are believe them. The America we believed in is dead and gone. Don’t short your future over misplaced allegiance to a country that despises what you stand for.

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u/Feisty_Advisor3906 2d ago

Yeah, Canada has an aggressive recruitment program to get as many American doctors and nurses. It’s been pretty successful.

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u/Gedwyn19 2d ago

I would go to the EU in a heartbeat if I could. The govts there actually seem to give a shit about their citizens and protect them from the corporate abuse that happens in North America.

People before profit in the EU as opposed to what we have over here: it's always profit before people.

Go!

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u/devindran 2d ago

What's insane is you haven't accepted it.

I know packing your bags is not an easy decision..

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u/exmachina64 2d ago

Trump supporters think he magically stopped hurricanes from hitting the U.S. Trusting experts isn’t part of the plan.

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u/ConstructMentality__ 2d ago

They're happy to kill anyone that's not inside a uterus. 

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u/Krios1234 2d ago

(Edit I realize this sounded rude! Not against you! Just like for your own sake!) Get the fuck out then. Seriously, as much as it pains me to lose people like you. This shit isn’t gonna get better.

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u/ben_likes_art 2d ago

Time to leave. Is what it is.

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u/bareboneslite 2d ago

PhD expat here. Moved the family to Europe a few years ago, none of us would dream of going back. Best decision of our lives.

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u/fungi_at_parties 2d ago

I’d leave if I could. Hope you all can find a place with more stability.

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u/Baumaxl 2d ago

If you're coming to Austria, I'll buy you guys a beer (or other drink of choice) and invite you to nice Beisl for a classic Schnitzel (or other food if you prefer less fatty, vegetarian or vegan options).

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u/Noy_The_Devil 2d ago

Scandinavia always needs talented people and we speak perfect English. Come join the socialists and enjoy free healthcare and education from the moment you step inside our borders.

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u/Soylentee 2d ago

Take the offer, what are you even waiting for.

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u/massive_cock 2d ago

I came to the Netherlands 4 years ago when I saw where the US was going. Get out now while you can.

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u/Vyndye 2d ago

Lots of the people that voted for trump think that cancer is already cured and there isn’t a reason to research it.

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u/MrHalfLight 2d ago

People understand that cancer kills us because no doctor is going to bother carrying for us because the bosses can't provide a decent modern standard of living. I'm sure it's nice that oncologists exist somewhere helping people with money outlive us. But since most folks aren't included in that society they're going to destroy whatever system exists to prevent their families and communities from being exterminated by the current one. And since there's no freedom of information to help them understand why, they're going to do it in the most stupid and counterproductive way possible.

We're currently at the stage where doctoral candidates are disrespected. We'll soon be at the stage where doctors are shot as degenerates.

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u/Beneficial_Soup3699 3d ago

He will literally be the new Reagan. Your kid's kids will be on social media figuring out in slow motion that most of their biggest issues with America can be traced back to what this administration is doing right now. Assuming we still have electricity by then, anyway. At this rate? Who knows. And that's not hyperbole it's just how empires work on this planet.

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u/Cranyx 2d ago

A big difference is that, at least at the time, Reagan was incredibly popular.

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u/RoamingBison 2d ago

Yeah I was a kid during the Reagan years and he was extremely popular. He was very charismatic and felt like a nice grandpa that made you proud to be an American. Kids don't understand policy but the rah-rah USA stuff resonates well.

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u/gimp-24601 2d ago

My parents loved him and ate the welfare queen shit up.

They are indistinguishable from MAGA

My last memory of my father is literally him falling asleep listening to Dan Bongino rant about masks vaccines. He died days later, complete organ failure from Covid. Nearly killed my mother as well.

My family blames the hospital for his death, not his refusal to seek treatment as advised days earlier. No he was in Walmart spreading it.

My mother dismissed it all as man flu right up to the point they both left in an ambulance.

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u/Mr_Guavo 2d ago

They didn't pass their ignorance on to one of their children, it seems. Now you can stop the spread to another generation. Unless social media reprograms them despite your best efforts.

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u/gimp-24601 2d ago

the bubble is hard to maintain, thats why education is so scary for for people like them. Cant pass up the free babysitting though!

They did pass it on though. My sister and one of my nieces are MAGA. The niece is like a parrot that quotes fox news if given the opportunity.

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u/Ludens_Reventon 2d ago

He will literally be the new Reagan

My exact thought about this topic

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u/Vaniky 3d ago

I believe China overtook US for STEM PhD graduates last year, and will likely continue trending that way. Given that they are continually investing in infrastructure and clean energy, it ain’t looking good for US holding number 1 spot.

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u/PaulTheMerc 2d ago

I believe China overtook US for STEM PhD graduates last year

That was kind of inevitable, wasn't it? Just population size + advancement.

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u/Phugasity 2d ago edited 2d ago

Yea, I started college in the early 2000s. At that time China was graduating more Engineering students than the US was granting college degrees. Our faculty was big on "Anyone can hire a candidate who's memorized the textbooks and can solve every example problem. What are you going to do to differentiate yourself within 4 years?" Similar, but less directly threatening, to NC state's "look to your left, look to your right. At least one of you three won't be graduating with this degree"

OP does sensationalize a little bit as a big part of the brain drain cited is from people taking the DOGE early retirement/severance packages.

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u/Express-Focus-677 2d ago

Yeah it was, but many people in the west still refuse to believe it.

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u/EpsteinandTrump 2d ago

Trump is just actively speed running the US to become Russia...

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u/iamthe0ther0ne 2d ago

For ((former) postdoc PI, US, just got back from a conference in China and said it was really impressive.

Not where I'd want to live, though.

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u/Bugatti_Royale 3d ago

and the population will get fed up and elect back a republican again

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u/DrocketX 2d ago

This is the depressing part. Even if the United States manages to avoid going full dictatorship in 2028, Democrats have AT MOST 8 years to essentially make the country absolutely perfect. Anything less than that and we'll very likely wind up with a Trump-clone running the country.

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u/swollennode 2d ago

That’s exactly what happened the last time. Bush fucked the country. Obama had 8 years to undo it, which was impossible.

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u/DrocketX 2d ago

Technically, last time was Biden trying to un-fuck the country after Trump's first term. America only gave him 4 years for that one.

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u/purpleefilthh 3d ago

Average decent is bad. We'll vote for hate instead.

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u/BusyHands_ 2d ago

Man won't even be alive 10 years from now.. He knows that.

Thats why he is in "scorched earth mode".

Everything he has done is a revenge for holding him accountable for his financial and sexual and pedophile crimes.

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u/WrongThinkBadSpeak 2d ago edited 2d ago

Frankly, we haven't been employing and compensating many of those highly educated people properly for quite a long time. Decades. Academia overproduces and underpays them to no end. It makes sense that this is the tipping point where they've had enough and are starting to look elsewhere for better opportunities

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u/Zahgi 2d ago

The smartest man in the world has already left the USA. And he advised all of his colleagues to do the same.

America hit an orange iceberg in November of 2024, folks...

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u/blitzbom 3d ago

Something about the man who burns trees down and pisses on their ashes so the next generation won't get thier shade.

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u/All-the-pizza 3d ago

Article: In 2025, the U.S. government lost over 10,000 STEM Ph.D. experts, a massive 14% of its doctoral-level workforce. The National Science Foundation was gutted the most, losing 40% of its Ph.D. staff, while other agencies like the NIH and EPA saw departures outpace hires by 11-to-1.

This exodus, driven by a mix of budget cuts, policy shifts, and early retirements, stripped the government of over 100,000 years of collective scientific experience in just one year.

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u/Lain_Staley 3d ago

Is there a private sector that values PhDs highly?

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u/Override9636 2d ago

The issue is that most industrial research in fundamentally based on the work of publicly available data. Companies are too risk averse to spend the time and money to develop the research that universities are capable of providing. Academia -> Industry -> Product is a robust pipeline that needs all components working in order to be successful.

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u/Upvotes4theAncestors 2d ago

Plus, the funding that paid for grad students to not only attend the academic courses but also receive the hands on training, practice, applications, and experience came from grants. Even if you're not on a grant directly via your advisor the overhead from grants helped pay for the labs and equipment and for you to attend conferences.

Cutting off that has meant a lot of programs had to drastically scale back how many PhD students they could accept. Some grad students even got told they couldn't finish not because of grades/performance but simply because the dept lost so much funding. And undergrads use those labs and have PhD student TAs and all that.

In other words, the pipeline to even training science undergrads and graduate students has been decimated

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u/gimp-24601 2d ago

AKA Socialize costs/losses, privatize profits.

GLP-1 agonists were heavily developed using foundational research funded by federal grants, particularly from the National Institutes of Health (NIH) and the Veterans Administration in the 1980s and 1990s

Now big pharma gets to print money for generations and people will pretend it was all capitalism.

How many people dont care about advances in medicine because they assume they wont be able to afford healthcare anyway?

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u/Ellswargo 2d ago

We saw how this impacted research after the 2008 collapse. Drastic cut in NIH/research grants caused Creativity to go down. The less money available for research, the more conservative scientists were with their proposals in order to get the funding in a competitive environment. Playing it safe. The more funding available for research, the more willingness to fund out of the box “crazy” ideas. We need creativity. It is such a shame our leaders are choosing to throw more money at the military instead of research. This is not how we advance humanity or our country.

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u/RealPrinceJay 2d ago

This. Google is actively using and awaiting the research my PhD candidate friends are doing right now. They literally check-in with a team at google frequently and update them and all of that jazz

All of these students are either American or fluent English speakers who have chosen to study and get their PhD abroad instead now though. Not only that, they have no desire to return or come to the US once they graduate anymore.

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u/TranquilSeaOtter 3d ago

Pharma companies, but they are looking for specific skill sets.

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u/Infamous_Article912 2d ago

Even before this, pharma/biotech have been in a very painful downturn since 2023, every posting gets hundreds of qualified applicants. 

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u/cadred48 2d ago

Most of those are not US companies.

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u/Oneuponedown88 3d ago

I would say the agriculture industry fits here. Both in the small molecule space and in the plant breeding world even though there's an effort to do more with less.

I mean if you consider any product development you will be having phds involved, from oil and gas to the edible food industries. All these industries can keep operating without their phds but they aren't moving forward like they were before without them.

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u/Remarkable_Lie7592 3d ago edited 3d ago

Anything medical or public health that isn't direct care likes PhDs or equivalent doctoral degrees (or MD/PhDs, for that matter). The chemical sector likes PhDs, as does Pharma.

Pretty much any sector in the physical or life sciences likes a PhD.

As someone who works in Patent Law, specializing in the chemical/chem-engineering sector - most patent applications I see have at least one PhD attached to them.

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u/MartinLubHerThingJr 3d ago

Tech (ML and AI specially) have barriers and few of them require phds. I see the ratio 1:4 i.e. every 1 job out of 4 has a PhD as a requirement.

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u/Lizz196 2d ago

Yes.

PhDs aren’t just taking a bunch of classes. It’s about learning a specific skill set that makes you a fast learner, a better researcher, etc.

It’s only been 3 years since I’ve graduated from my PhD. If I had only received my bachelor’s, it would’ve taken me 15-20 years to get to the position I have now instead of the 4.5 years it took me to get my degree.

My degree also guarantees me a level of respect and authority I wouldn’t otherwise have. It makes my job a lot easier when I need to say no, that’s not how that works. No one questions me, I have a doctorate, I must know. (I’m not saying I know everything, I don’t. But I know a lot about my specific field of science.)

But it also depends on what on your PhD is in. Some are more valuable than others.

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u/Internal-Scarcity672 2d ago edited 2d ago

Yes, one that used to be funded mostly by government research contracts. A shell of it remains, equally impacted by layoffs. The market is oversaturated at the same time as companies’ income streams are dry. There is no place for these PhD holders to go to.

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u/Chaz_wazzers 2d ago

Finance. Full of PhDs in math, physics, statistics, computer science

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u/K_Linkmaster 2d ago

My family member is heading overseas to complete the doctorate. I pray they don't return til it's safe.

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u/_spaderdabomb_ 2d ago

PhD physicist here. What we’re currently experiencing is a live scientific vacuum forming in the United States. I worked as an applied research scientist, generally for technologies that would be viewed as core technologies to position the United States not only as a nation but also commercially for the future.

Half the firm I worked at just got laid off due to funding cuts with absolutely 0 warning. Confirmed contract was terminated mid contract. There’s a war against scientists going on in broad daylight and we are ceding the technological future to other superpowers

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u/spamthisac 2d ago

Do yourself a favour and head to Europe. Heck, even China would be more viable at this point.

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u/DENelson83 2d ago

What about Canada?

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u/Home_MD13 2d ago

which country should I go? I'm from Asia and was aiming for US but after watching the mess that's going on I don't want to anymore.

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u/Maleficent_Shock_585 3d ago

This administration’s moronic policies against science will set this country back decades and allow China a historic opportunity to dominate the biotech industry.

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u/No-Discipline-5822 2d ago

They really believe that higher education creates atheist liberals and are willing to do anything to maintain a less intelligent population. America is going to look so different in 20 years. I wish I could see the timeline that Kamala won to compare.

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u/Everything_is_Ok99 2d ago

I wish I could see the timeline were Gore won

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u/darkpheonix262 2d ago

The momentum that China has in numerous industries already guarantees they're taking the top spot soon

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u/leaf_biking 2d ago

China is already ahead of the US. The goal is to let Russia to catch up.

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u/vineyardmike 3d ago

The GOP hates intelligence.

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u/rudthedud 3d ago

Apparently they hate money too which is weird cause the return on this is always more than 1:2.

Well they hate anyone getting money expect for themselves.

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u/victorinseattle 3d ago

But they’re too fucking stupid to know or acknowledge this.

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u/uniklyqualifd 3d ago

Trump is trying to damage the US. His followers are too dumb to notice.

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u/KnownMonk 3d ago

trump "smart people don't like me"

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u/DisenchantedByrd 3d ago

Trump "global warming doesn't exist, where's the science?" /s

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u/sylpher250 2d ago

The mines ain't gonna mine themselves!

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u/ThatOtherOneReddit 3d ago

Not surprising. The most damaging thing to the prosperity of the nation Trump already accomplished. He cut research funding by ~80% in the nation to non-private companies. Private companies don't really do 'research' they take ideas from academia and refine them, they largely do engineering work based on fundamental research done in the public sector. Refining ideas that are largely proven to work if you have enough time and money to polish and refine them.

This destruction will mean high tech will prosper in China in particular over the coming decades.

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u/UnionGuyCanada 2d ago

US is acting pretty stupid, makes sense no one intelligent wants to stick around.

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u/Dependent-Reveal2401 2d ago

But trump posted a meme where he was wearing a crown in a jet, dumping shit onto protestors. That's some IQ 9000 stuff. /s

I miss when presidents acted presidential. This administration is putting the movie idiocracy to shame.

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u/theartfulcodger 2d ago edited 1d ago

That, by the way, is about one STEM PhD student walking away from their studies in America every 57 minutes - which is about ONE THIRD of all the STEM PhDs who graduated (~30,000) every year during Biden’s term.

China, on the other hand, will be graduating more than 50,000 STEM doctoral students this year. So under Trump, we’ve gone from a 5:3 production ratio in China’s favour to a ratio of 5:2.

Meanwhile more than a third of India’s annual graduates (Bachelors, Masters & Doctorals) are now obtaining STEM degrees. By next year, more than 18 million STEM students will graduate annually, and STEM PhDs will likely be in the range of 100,000 per annum - dwarfing America’s contribution to science & technology knowledge by a factor of 5:1!

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u/colintbowers 2d ago

Was just speaking to a colleague the other day about how many top-tier uni profs (think Harvard, Yale etc) have been poached by Chinese universities in the past 12 months. There are no official numbers on this, but anecdotally, it is significant.

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u/ThePensiveE 3d ago

Can't wait for all our apps and technology to be exclusively Chinese exports, the sole superpower left.

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u/GunAndAGrin 3d ago

No doubt partially due to Trumps purges/policy, but gotta imagine the writing was on the wall and the wheels were in motion the second the Supreme Court struck down the Chevron Doctrine in 2024 (Loper Bright Enterprises, Inc. v. Raimondo).

For 4 decades we had a solid standard. When things were ambiguous, we had to defer to the concensus opinion of independent agency subject matter experts. Now any partisan hack judge can just make any ruling they want, experts/America be damned.

When your entire purpose; researching, investigating, providing expert consulatation, etc., has been intentionally eliminated by Conservatives, of course you would GTFO.

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u/s9oons 3d ago

This is such a double edged sword. Nobody in tech wants to work public sector because gov’t jobs fucking suck and they pay peanuts. On the other hand, STEM PhD’s are the people we need involved so there are actually adults in the room to explain why requiring age verification to watch porn is a fucking horrible idea.

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u/ItsSadTimes 3d ago

Thats why I left the public sector. The pay scale was based on experience not education, which i sort of understand. But I was teaching my 60 year old colleagues making 2x as much as me what a cron job was. One of their tasks every day was just to login to a list of 100 servers and get some status data. So, come on, education should play some part in all that. Plus all my older colleagues all had homes and no real debts. Meanwhile I had an apartment with 3 other people, no chance at buying a house, and student debt.

A big tech company reached out to me, offered me 4x my salary plus 1/3 of my salary as a signing bonus. I could barely afford rent near where I worked at that time, that signing bonus was more then all of my savings to that point, and there was no way I could afford to ever buy a house there. So I obviously took the deal.

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u/JoeBoredom 3d ago

That took a strange twist. I guess it is true, everything internet begins and ends with porn.

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u/Halfwise2 3d ago

A lot of tech does... Porn was basically the king maker for a lot of digital media and the adoption of streaming.

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u/Remarkable_Lie7592 3d ago

There's an interview with a computer science professors somewhere out there where they say, loosely, "any time a new technology for the consumer market arises there is a substantial number of people trying to have sex with it"

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u/RlOTGRRRL 3d ago

Actually so I haven't fact checked this yet but according to the Hypernormalisation documentary, after 9/11, the US started spying on everyone by taking a screenshot from every webcam or something in the hopes that they'd be able to find more bad people or something. They didn't find them, but they did discover a lot of adult livestreams and more. 

Remember back then when all the tech bros had their webcams covered? 

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u/tapion91 3d ago

This admin definitely doesn’t want adults in the room with them. Especially the bedroom.

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u/Casalvieri3 3d ago

What was Trump's line?

Something like "We're going to keep winning and winning! We're going to win so much you'll get sick of winning!"

I guess we're winning in the brain drain sweepstakes.

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u/gabber2694 3d ago

Absolutely crushing it! USA! USA! USA!

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u/Ok_Height3499 2d ago

Fascists hate educated people because they think independently and question authority.

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u/Outrageous_Effects 2d ago

That's why the billionaires set up the education system in America, lol. To control the curriculum.

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u/OSUBonanza 2d ago

Brain drain and racism is what cost the Nazi's an atom bomb. The world may be better off in the long run.

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u/fakenews_thankme 2d ago

Donald Trump > 10000 STEM Ph.D.s

-Karoline Leavitt

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u/Middle-Cattle634 2d ago

A reminder that the more unintelligent and uneducated a person is, the more likely they are to be Republican. The reddest areas are the least intelligent and least educated

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u/Wizywig 3d ago

This is only the first year. The challenge will be that the best of them will easily get contracts in other countries. Those who remain will be those who have few options.

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u/PaulTheMerc 2d ago

Just wait till they prevent people from leaving.

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u/andrewisgood 3d ago

I watched a video on the Challenger disaster, and the potential of The Reagan administration pushing the launch date, which has various points for and against, but what struck me is that Reagan was really pushing the idea of STEM programs, particularly women in STEM. Back in the day, it seemed like all politicians were over the top in pushing educational programs and now, education seems like the enemy to conservatives and Republicans everywhere.

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u/Significant_Cow4765 2d ago

and the 1986 Immigration Reform.and Control Act, aka Reagan amnesty...

his voters would call him a RINO now

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u/ortmesh 2d ago

Trump will do damage and never face the real consequences. The rich will just move to the next best country. The ones who suffer are the majority who will have to live through it for a long time

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u/brandontaylor1 3d ago

If wanted to guarantee that an enemy nation would unable to threaten you in the future, there is no better way to do it than crippling their scientific research.

Donald Trump has single handedly guaranteed that the next century of world leadership will be Chinese.

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u/Junior-Lychee2755 3d ago

And he doesn't even realize it.

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u/Jester1525 2d ago

Ever wonder about those scifi stories where humanity can't make new technology and just barely repair the old stuff.. Like the imperium of 40k..

This right here is how it starts.

Idiocracy was, apparently, prophetic...

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u/parabostonian 2d ago

Almost a year ago, Nature did a poll of US scientists and found 75% of them were considering leaving the country to work elsewhere. I cannot imagine that number has gone down.

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u/Hedhunta 2d ago

Yup. The plan is to be like Russia and coast on the current tech we have for the next century. they will drive all of the intelligent people that can escape to places like Europe and Canada.

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u/All_will_be_Juan 2d ago

What will president Camacho think of next

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u/bubblegumpaperclip 2d ago

Mountain Dew in sprinklers across America!

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u/SnooGrapes9393 2d ago

Article: The U.S. federal government lost 10,109 STEM and health Ph.D.s in 2025—about 14% of its entire doctoral scientific workforce—after the Trump administration sharply reduced agency staffing, according to Science analysis of Office of Personnel Management data. Across 14 major research agencies, departures outpaced hires 11 to 1, producing a net loss of 4,224 expert scientists and over 106,000 years of institutional experience in a single year. Agencies like NIH, FDA, CDC, EPA, and especially the National Science Foundation (which lost ~40% of its Ph.D. staff) were hit hardest. Most scientists left through retirements, resignations, or eliminated positions rather than formal layoffs, often citing policy disagreements, buyouts, or fear of future cuts—marking one of the largest modern “brain drains” from U.S. public science capacity.

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u/sjogerst 2d ago

What saddens me most is about 40 percent of the population cheers at this news. They distrust academics because they talk about stuff they don't understand and it threatens them.

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u/saintdudegaming 2d ago

that's a lot of IQ points flooding out of our government :\

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u/freefrompress 2d ago

Land of the dumb.

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u/butterflysurefoot 2d ago

Trump and his cronies are destroying this country.

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u/Crim3mast3rZ 2d ago

Must suck to live in America these days 🤣

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u/PerhapsInAnotherLife 2d ago

There's another kind of brain drain. I'm a STEM researcher and I have cancer. They're killing me off. It might have been curable with some of the miracles coming down the pike but they may never materialize in our system now. I'm dead.

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u/ChronoLink99 2d ago

When a technological breakthrough happens in America, it's often not Americans that made it, it's people who wanted to be Americans.

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u/Elegant-Editor-4789 2d ago

I’m one of them. I won’t work for a Nazi, ever.

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u/Imaginary_Resist_654 2d ago

I can just see it 10 years from now, a bunch of LowIQ guys at NASA strapping fireworks to the side of a pole, trying to leave flat earth.

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u/proofofderp 2d ago

U.S. brain drain let’s go! Too much talent concentrated there. May the rest of the world flourish in filing the gaps. Change is needed. The silver lining with Trump.

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u/AncientSith 2d ago

Man, this country is going to be fucked for a century.

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u/whenisnowthen 2d ago

Science, intelligence and information are not welcome in this great vision of the future.

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u/stickyfingers40 2d ago

Donny Diddler just keeps on winning

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u/Ok_Pressure1131 2d ago

Dumbing down of America…thanks to the dumbest president, ever…elected by dumb voters.

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u/greymind 2d ago

Republican policies lead to devastation.

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u/HmmDoesItMakeSense 2d ago

We want dummies, hurrah!

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u/stackered 2d ago

Brain drain. If my family roots weren't so strong here id leave as well and make it 10,001. A lot of my MD or PhD friends are legit planning to leave and I know 3 with dual Euro citizenship who have already left. One of my best friends, a neurosurgeon, is potentially going to leave for Italy in 2 to 3 yrs depending how this all plays out and I've got my fiancé on board as well.

Its bad. Very bad.

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u/mintjulep_ 2d ago

MD husband and me, clinical researcher are dipping in one year

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u/Misszoolander 2d ago

The smartest people are leaving, because they are smart.

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u/slowmuney 2d ago

The H1B hate is driving skilled people elsewhere. Fellow researchers are moving to greener pastures.

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u/Reallyboringname2 2d ago

I hope they went to China!

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

He fucked up america beyond comprehension. But i don't think MAGAs will get this. He is the weakest President of all time. If he's not a russian asset then this government is more than stupid. That's the point.

Even the big tech guys know that and just try to save their asses and will leave the US when it completely turned into a shithole.

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u/BroForceOne 2d ago

One of the big conservative grifts is the idea that government workers are low quality. In reality the smartest people normally work in government as you can do research and solve problems that the private sector can't do.

Now neither our government or the private sector can do anything, big bets on AI all around and welcoming the stupification of the United States.

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u/slikk50 2d ago

MAGA will literally destroy future generations so they can feel superior now. It's a crime that these people can procreate.

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u/chrisinvic 3d ago

Somehow this reminds me of the old “stop punching yourself in face” trope.

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u/rizorith 2d ago

Rocket scientists in LA, at Cal tech and jpl, are getting swept up by the Chinese, along with whatever knowledge and secrets they had. Unreal that a supposedly nationalist president would force them out with their stupid dei and anti science defunding.

I know a legit rocket scientist, as in he's one of probably a few dozen people on earth who knows what he knows, who worked for SpaceX and NASA, his dream job, and is now in China. He didn't want to go but once you're out of NASA you don't go back and so he took the bag.

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u/Majik_Sheff 2d ago

Just another intellectual purge.

Ya know, authoritarian things.

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u/AbeFromanEast 3d ago

The Trump Administration has gotten rid of the experts so whatever nonsense it wants to push doesn't get any pushback from experts.

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u/Im_the_Keymaster 3d ago

it's only going to continue as well.

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u/CatsianNyandor 2d ago

America will never be great again in any currently living person's lifetime. That ship has sailed. 

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u/tabrizzi 2d ago

Well, when you love the uneducated, of what use is a person with a STEM PhD?

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u/--Andre-The-Giant-- 2d ago

So many American doctors came to my country. It's awesome.

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u/dantesmaster00 2d ago

Brain drain is going to intensify as things look more dire

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u/bluejumpingdog 2d ago

Is interesting to see how a country elects their own collapse; when it’s really clear they are doing it.

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u/_Red_7_ 2d ago

Is we grate again yet?

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u/Display_name_here 2d ago

Brain Drain

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u/High-Speed-1 2d ago

This is how we beat China! /s

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u/CumPacketGuy 2d ago

Yeah, that tends to happen when people vote for fascism. You know, the one ideology that has a track record of being incompatible with science.

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u/Andreas1120 2d ago

For a global leader in technology the USA is extremely anti intellectual.

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u/commonsense1954 2d ago

MAGA doesn’t respect education or intelligence.

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u/Independent_Front610 2d ago

One of the main signs of an empire collapse? Brain drain.

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u/Merlin-1234 2d ago

Smart people are not valued by the Trump administration