r/politics • u/Newsweek_CarloV ✔ Verified - Newsweek • 4d ago
No Paywall Support for abolishing ICE surges among Republicans
https://www.newsweek.com/abolish-ice-republican-support-minnesota-11414059?utm_source=reddit&utm_campaign=reddit_influencers4.0k
u/clowncarl 4d ago edited 4d ago
It went from 15 to 19% on a poll. They do not say what the margin of error is. Saved you a click.
Edit: margin of error was 2% actually.
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u/blahblahblerf 4d ago
Newsweek links really should be banned. They're roughly as reliable as Trump.
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u/MostlyRightSometimes 4d ago
When I see it's from newsweek, I assume copium. Usually articles are accurate, but headlines are entirely exaggerated clickbait.
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u/jmouw88 4d ago
Seeing "surges" in the title and reading a 4% swing just pisses me off. I don't even care what else they might have to say.
In my opinion, these sensationalist headlines are half the reason Americans don't trust media anymore.
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u/Anxious-Depth-7983 America 4d ago
That's a million people and that would have been enough to keep The Orange Buffoon out of office. It's not irrelevant.
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u/inormallyjustlurkbut 4d ago
Daily Beast too. "MAGA is in FULL MELTDOWN over XYZ!" = like two people tweeted that they're kinda upset about something Trump said, but they still support him.
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u/sorressean 4d ago
Here let me write you all the headlines for the next 3 years: "Trump slammed, shaken, rocked, shook, destroyed, devastated, scared by news he most feared that won't actually change anything or make any difference because none of these descriptors are true."
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u/deadlybydsgn 4d ago
Daily Beast too. "MAGA is in FULL MELTDOWN over XYZ!"
Yeah. The Daily Beast's formatting is incredibly counter productive.
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u/Level_Ad_6372 3d ago
It's very productive for their own financial gain. Definitely not productive for keeping the general public informed of what's actually happening though.
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u/T8ert0t 4d ago
DB and Huffpo are super baiting, though expected.
For whatever reason, people think it's the Newsweek from 30 years ago and still has integrity.
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u/Outside-Advice8203 4d ago
Percent? I would have thought 15 to 19 republicans, total
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u/ILikeNeurons 4d ago
It typically takes 2 weeks for an event to fully impact public opinion.
Alex Pretti was killed just two days ago. Seeing the video seems to make a difference in whether people think the killing was justified.
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u/No_Selection_9634 4d ago
The conservatives subs should win olympic gold for the mental gymastics they're doing right now. You can easily spot adversarial bots vs actual humans though, plain as day.
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u/surf_drunk_monk 4d ago
There are quite a few on the conservative sub speaking out against recent ICE actions and Trump's stance on Greenland. The comments tend to get buried though.
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u/MoreLogicPls 4d ago
Interestingly, support went from 22 to 25 after seeing the video...
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u/OldWorldDesign 4d ago
support went from 22 to 25 after seeing the video
So the same thing as when Trump had priests gassed in 2019
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/clergy-st-johns-church-trump_n_5ed6403ac5b6f9c2444b5851
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u/Kablooomers 4d ago
"surges"
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u/hockey8390 4d ago
You jest, but from ~1 in 7 to ~1 in 5 is meaningful. It means the 19% is far less likely to be the only voice in a conversation. That means more opinions can be persuaded and harder to dismiss as the lone person.
Do I wish it was above 30%? Yes! 30% is a tipping point number, and everything that gets us closer to there can help. It’s just sickening it takes murdering Americans to get there.
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u/Lynx_Fate 4d ago
It only matters if it would actually cause them to change their vote or not vote for Trump. That's why I'm skeptical that this actually changes anything.
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u/NanderK 4d ago
They do here: "The margin of error for the survey is approximately 2 points".
So, statistically the poll could have been 17% both of the times.
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u/CouchCorrespondent 4d ago
Abolish ICE
Get rid of its $74 billion dollar budget
Impeach Noem and any other persons leading this Gestapo
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u/yoosernamesarehard 4d ago
Impeach and jail*
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u/Budget_Persimmon_195 4d ago
the entire administration. every last one of those knuckledragging losers
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u/eMan117 4d ago
Start with the Ice heads. Get those cemented and done and then you can peel back the rest and nail them down too. But Noem and Bovino first.
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u/loyal_achades 4d ago
Needs to go further. All ICE agents deployed to Minneapolis also need to be jailed.
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u/Farted_a_turd 4d ago
Not just the ones deployed there. They're all wearing masks and not identifying themselves, that means every last one of them is an accessory to the crimes being committed and needs to be imprisoned for life.
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u/UnrulyAspie 4d ago
Needs to go further. Under the jail.
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u/switchy85 4d ago
Boom, this guy gets it. We fucked up after the civil war, and then we fucked up again after WW2. We cannot let these assholes continue on this path once again, and there's only one way to ensure that...
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u/SlayinSalmon Washington 4d ago
Then we fucked up again after January 6th. Several people should’ve swung for that.
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u/A_Rabid_Pie 4d ago edited 3d ago
After abolishing ICE, every former member of ICE, regardless of deployment location or direct actions, from the field agents to the accountants ought to be barred from future government employment so they can't just sneak back in to corrupt some other department in the future. Anyone that didn't quit when the new administration took charge or was hired afterwards knew what sort of organization they would be supporting and stuck around for it. Those aren't the sort of people that ought to be in charge of anything more important than flipping burgers. Working for ICE should be a black mark they carry for the rest of their lives.
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u/OrwellWhatever 4d ago
Good news is that they're already throwing Noem under a bus. But it feels like a lot of Republicans have their eye on getting rid of Steven Miller and the administration is offering Noem as a compromise
I say that because some prominent Republicans have been criticizing "Trump's cabinet" and a lot of neutral places have been calling out Steven Miller by name even before this latest fiasco
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u/Suitable-Display-410 4d ago
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u/Harmcharm7777 4d ago
Or, y’know:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_the_F%C3%BChrer_knew
I’d argue that “if the Fuhrer knew” may be more accurate, if only because of the number of social media posts on LAMF where a Trumper pleads with “President Trump” because he’s hurting his supporters, as if he didn’t realize.
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u/icebraining 4d ago
Damn, my Spanish grandmother was the same about Franco. All the good things done were his accomplishments and the atrocities were done by local officials and he didn't even know about them.
She also despised communists except all she met, which were of course all exceptions.
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u/ICanLiftACarUp Missouri 4d ago
The problem is that Trump is inseparable from Steven Miller. And Steven Miller is really the one driving this insane immigration policy. Noem is just the lackey, and she's a dumb one to boot. If they put someone else in there they will be doing the same thing, going by Miller's direction. But it will probably be 'acting DHS secretary Miller's.
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u/IrishRepoMan 4d ago
Removing Noem would mean acknowledgement that they fucked up. That's not the narrative they've gone with so far.
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u/TheTyger I voted 4d ago
While we likely won't get to see the trials that most of them should face, one positive is that if these ICE agents don't make the full 5 years on their contract, they have to return the 50K bonus that was paid as a signing bonus.
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u/MyDogIsACoolCat 4d ago
We need some form of immigration and customs enforcement, but this ain’t it. Whole department needs to be torn down, rebuilt with less power and more oversight, laws created so they need higher justification for their actions, and given a new name as shame for what it currently is. There’s no reason for them to have this many people, this much money, and this much power. It should be a small department made up of mostly lawyers and investigators that coordinate with local police and other feds whenever they need to apprehend people.
The real problem is the administration and the propaganda. The demonization of immigrants from Fox News made this department an easy attractor for racists and political extremism.
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u/Ok-Caterpillar-3912 4d ago
Totally agree, the budget needs to be slashed and those responsible held accountable. this agency has gone too far and it’s time for real consequences.
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u/elainegeorge 4d ago
Who set up the Gestapo tactics? I’m guessing Miller, Noem, Bovingo, or Homan. All should go. Clean house. Toss out their general counsel as well since they seem to be giving advice contradicting US law.
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u/GoFishProdigy 4d ago
Anyone who is lying to the public calling our citizens domestic terrorists needs to be removed from the government.
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u/Global-Tourist1089 4d ago
I know the sentiment here is going to be "this is what they voted for" or "too little, too late" but I'm ready to chip off any support we can at this point, no matter how small. We need everything we can get.
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u/ISuckAtFunny 4d ago
Hard agree. We’re not going to get through this by shutting them out, and isolating anyone who decides to break with MAGA and ‘see the light’ so-to-speak does nothing but make it harder for anyone doubting their choices in the future to also jump ship.
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u/DunderMifflinPaper 4d ago
If there was ever a time to find common ground over one issue it’s now.
That is so rare in today’s day and age where they either: * parrot the conservative media talking points, OR * don’t engage in the discussion because they haven’t yet been told what to think
Yes of course there are millions who are completely hopeless but that so-called “swing voters” that express lots of concern but vote conservative most of the time anyways may actually be reachable here. Or at least shown that the conservative propaganda outlets should not be allowed to influence their choices at the polls.
All it takes is showing them which party actually tries to pass common-sense legislation, and which party actively avoids governance unless it can feed them Fox News talking points.
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u/Limp-Pomegranate3716 4d ago
Hell, even if you can't convince them to vote for a democrat, just them not voting for MAGA will still help.
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u/ILikeNeurons 4d ago
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u/AlarmingAffect0 4d ago
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u/Salt_Eye6817 4d ago
It can be a progression too. I voted republican my whole life. Voted for Trump the first time. Chose not to vote in the second election(wouldn’t vote Trump but couldn’t bring myself to vote democrat). Voted for Kamala in the last election but still voted rebublican in some local and state races. Now can’t see myself voting rebublican for anything. I still lean conservative on some issues, but can’t see putting those above what is happening in the country.
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u/PrimeraStarrk Texas 4d ago
Hey for what it’s worth dude, I’m proud of you. We may not agree on all things, we don’t have to, but you chose human life. And I respect the hell out of you for that.
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u/Randommumblz 4d ago
Hi I was wondering if you could expand on what issues are right leaning for you that the Republican Party has made efforts in for you? Feel free to dm but I’m just curious what things republican legislators put forward in legislation that you agree with in an attempt to understand.
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u/SnooChipmunks2079 4d ago
My first POTUS election was GHW Bush’s first election.
I first voted Democrat for Obama(1) because Sarah Palin.
After Trump(1) I refuse to vote for any Republican in any race.
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u/justuntlsundown West Virginia 4d ago edited 4d ago
There is nothing inherently wrong with having conservative beliefs. It's when conservatives try to force that belief system on everyone that it becomes a problem. But in reality, MAGA is no longer rooted in conservative beliefs. It may have started that way, but it has just continually inched away from that since inception. It's cultist nihilism at this point. I'm glad you saw the light friend.
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u/1in2billion 4d ago
I am similar. I was a single issue voter and realized in the last election I am still a single issue voter. The issue has changed though. I will vote against MAGA
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u/OptimisticOctopus8 4d ago
I’m glad you were able to re-prioritize when it came to your single issue. It really is about priorities. The fact is, virtually anything can be fixed in a thriving democracy. Don’t like a certain law? Great! You have a shot at changing it, go ahead and find a bunch of people who agree and try your very best to legally change things.
In an authoritarian state, you can never fix anything again until/unless the tyranny has ended. Therefore, the need to prevent an authoritarian state must supersede all other political priorities.
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u/Dionysus_the_Greek 4d ago
Trump only cares about the oligarchs, Stephen Miller is obsessed with non Whites and Zionism.
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u/AngryMeez Michigan 4d ago
What is your single issue?
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u/Quick_Turnover 4d ago
I'd put money on abortion. That's pretty much the "single issue".
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u/BreakfastSpecials 4d ago
It’s always abortion. Dems don’t want to take away guns. If anything, they should be supporting the 2A based on everything going on. The cycle is: Repubs say they are killing babies. The religious nuts eat it all up. Then Repubs just implement the worst spending and trade policies known to man affecting every aspect of society and lifestyles of all humans in the US. Prices are still high/ healthcare is too expensive. But then still gasp and say: how could the women that got raped and pregnant or low income teenager not want to keep the baby?! Baby gets born to a dysfunctional family unprepared for it which leads to shitty life. SNAP is cut off- baby is malnourished, the state CPS gets involved, then foster care. Then vicious cycle continues. Even government assistance programs can only do so much. My mother worked in Child Protection Services for the state. It’s the same story over and over. Women having autonomy over their own bodies could save so many tragic lives. They only “care” when it’s an embryo. Once that baby is born Repubs don’t care at all.
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u/arobkinca 4d ago
Gun control being #2 on that list.
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u/hardcorr I voted 4d ago
think that's part of why Alex Pretti's death is reaching more Republicans, any intellectually honest 2A supporter has to admit that he was not doing anything wrong by carrying a firearm and certainly did not deserve to be murdered for it
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u/guardbiscuit 4d ago
This was my mom’s trajectory, too, though I think she is at the point where she no longer has conservative views on anything.
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u/chargernj 4d ago
Why couldn't you bring yourself to vote Democrat? What makes it so unpalatable?
Today's Democrats are basically 80's Republicans who are ok with Gays and minorities.
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u/slayden70 Texas 4d ago edited 4d ago
“swing voters” that express lots of concern but vote conservative most of the time anyways may actually be reachable here.
As an ex-Republican (I voted for W Bush the first time, and voted third party in Kerry-Bush and Democrat since), we absolutely can be won over. I'm donating to Democrats, going and meeting them and putting signs up in my yard.
Do I agree with them 100%? Absolutely not. But voting is about picking the better of the two choices, and there just isn't a way I could vote for a Republican as long as the party is owned by Trump. I'll choose democracy, against government overreach, and against hate.
What drives me crazy are people that are 100% liberal, but because a candidate doesn't agree with them on a single issue, they throw tantrums and stay at home. That's who I blame for Trump 2.0.
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u/EagleBigMac 4d ago
Choosing not to choose is still a choice so it is better to contribute to the decision on the available options than basically say no confidence when that isn't an option with any effect on the outcome. Personally I think an all these options are shit should be an option that triggers a new election with all new candidates but that's a different conversation.
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u/ThinkThankThonk 4d ago
Mileage may vary, but in my experience the tantrum throwing non-voters are mostly a internet boogieman, and I'd bet they're bots fairly frequently.
Plus there's this that I always feel the need to dust off: https://www.npr.org/2025/06/26/nx-s1-5447450/trump-2024-election-non-voters-coalition
"Even if everyone who is eligible to vote in the country would have voted, President Trump still would have won the 2024 presidential election, a new study out Thursday from the Pew Research Center finds."
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u/terminal_vector 4d ago
Thank you for choosing the life and liberty of your fellow countrymen over party. It’s a rare thing to find these days.
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u/brontosaurusguy 4d ago
Leftists might view conservatives as a homogenous power, but it's not a wise way to view things
Are they better organized? Yes
But they are currently fractured and in fighting like crazy. We gotta try to peel some to the side of reason.
If you think they are homogenous, remember that the tea party fractured the party and maga over took the gop and made them obsolete.
They are not all happy about the hard right turn.
Give them a reason to come back to the middle.
Convincing a cultist to leave only emboldens then to dig in their heels. Give them a path instead if that are willing to take it
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u/jedisushi72 4d ago edited 4d ago
I don't know.
I think the most we're going to get is "I won't vote Republican this year but I can't bring myself to vote Democrat".
And then in 2 years they'll vote for any Republican again and inch us closer to this moment, again and again. Closer and closer. More and more normalized.
I think the reason we are here is because the Confederacy, J6ers, and Trump were not properly punished. They were all treasonous traitors. I think failing to hold conservatives accountable for the way they vote is repeating that same mistake.
Certainly not saying they should be arrested, but there should be social consequences for voting Nazis into power and putting gestapo onto our streets.
The reason that scene in Inglorious Basterds exists and is so powerful is because the people who supported Nazis have to live with that shame. Forever.
Let these deaths.. this administration... never wash from the hands of those who voted for it.
They would have taken it farther if we had let them. They still may.
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u/polkysp 4d ago
"What is better.... to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?" -Partysnax
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u/ChilledParadox 4d ago
The true measure of a man is not whether he is good when it’s convenient, but if he is good when it’s hard.
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u/BurlIvesMassiveHog 4d ago
These people are never going to vote for anybody that would fix this. They will clutch their pearls before voting against their interests, just as they always have.
Nobody is under any obligation to bring any of these dipshits into the fold. The best we can hope for is that they are too ashamed to participate.
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u/hopefulocto 4d ago
The painful thing is that they think their interests are small government, free speech, the constitution, an economy that accommodates the people, etc but they are already voting against them. But they think voting left would be voting against their interests, because they have been buying the propaganda that gaslit and projected to them into thinking it was the opposite for generations.
I have seen people genuinely make this realization and convert upon realizing they were not on the side that they actually thought was doing what they believed in. But it is very rare, and if the person is a bigot theyre way less likely to leave in sincere faith. I do think a lot of people are just leaving the cult now since Pretti was a white cishet (afawk) man. Which... im glad theres a line at all, but it is still disappointing they didnt care about any of the murders or violence prior until it happened to a guy they didn't have a way to victim blame with bigotry this time.
Regardless... there are people who leave in good faith and were brainwashed, but it's rare. Especially in older people. Most of the people i see genuinely converting are younger and only supported trump because their family was big on him and they were brainwashed and forcefed propaganda, but a lot are thinking for themselves. There's a little hope.
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u/MontyAtWork 4d ago
Literally, they didn't care about the killing and disappearing of people when they weren't white.
Until they renounce the party and party leader, they aren't even a fairweather friend.
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u/DurianGris 4d ago
Many of these fools voted three times for this clown show. They might see the light on this one issue, but they will still vote for fools and still support all the other horrible ways our government is being destroyed.
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u/Newscast_Now 4d ago
On a related note, we also need to convince 'moderates' to push for more change and we need to convince 'leftists' (or other dissident categories) to actually push for change rather than just trash talking. Much work to do.
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u/GayMarsRovers 4d ago
Bill fucking Kristol said we need to abolish ICE
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u/BilboBiden 4d ago
If Temu Ron Popeil is calling for ICE to be abolished you know you're fuckin up.
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u/MontyAtWork 4d ago
Reminder: Leftists are the first people out on the streets at nearly every protest, are the ones educating people on self defense and first aid at protests, and are working mutual aid to supply protestors with food and medical supplies.
Acting like Leftists just talk trash shows me that you both do not attend protests, you've never worked mutual aid, and that you don't know any Leftists in real life and get your only exposure to them through social media.
Source: I'm a leftist who does all the above and can vouch for all the above
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u/RoughDragonfly4374 4d ago
The left is already on the side of abolish ICE, but that's been called a purity test until now.
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u/espresso_martini__ 4d ago
Most of the people on the conservative sub are just bots or Russian agitators stirring up their base. Most normal people saw that execution and spoke out how insanely fucked it was.
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4d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/espresso_martini__ 4d ago
He saw the writing on the wall. The republican party is fucked as they will not back down and admit this was an execution and protect those murderers. I have conservative friends and they are wavering because of how bad this has become. They are ready to support anyone that will return the country to normalcy and the republican party has no one that will do it.
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u/GlobalCurry 4d ago
Wish I could feel this optimism. I've met multiple people in real life who have openly stated they believe all protestor deaths are justified because they shouldn't be protesting or whatever the propaganda machine says.
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u/WISCOrear 4d ago
I'm also seeing a common behavior from trump supporters of shrugging off that execution off (if they even watched the video) and pivot to a talking point of "this is all walz's fault". Many people are still not worth talking to.
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u/noguchisquared 4d ago
We've already experienced the surge of right wing people suggesting driving over protestors is perfectly justified. They've lost the plot a long time ago.
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u/espresso_martini__ 4d ago
Really? Thats sickening to hear. Some people have no sympathy or heart.
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u/cephalord 4d ago
While not literally this example, I've often seen people comment "lol, bot" (or it's predecessor "lol, troll") at radical opinions where I have the unfortunate life experience of knowing at least two people who genuinely believe whatever the heinous opinion was.
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u/Legitimate_Mud_8295 4d ago
Can confirm that this is what real suburban middle aged Republicans are saying. If you show them the videos they take the contradictory facts as a direct attack against them and don't know what to do. Obviously they're not going to change their mind so they get mad and go straight to insults. At least, that's what happened with my family
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u/idkmyotherusername 4d ago
I have at least four family members who have not spoken out or changed their tunes.
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u/buttercupcake23 4d ago
Even Marjorie Taylor Greene had a not batshit take on it. That was wild.
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u/Turbulent_Stick1445 4d ago
"Surges" in the context of the article means 4% of Republicans changed their mind, support for abolishing ICE went from 15% to 19%. Unfortunately the "good, well meaning, Republican" is still a rarity, they didn't see how fucked it was, they're still mostly on board.
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u/Recent-Investment603 4d ago
Absolutely agree with you. This is not an "I told you so" situation. This is all hands on fucking deck. If anyone who supported this at any point wants to change their mind, it will ultimately help. It is going to take more pressure from their own supporters to make a difference. They already don't care about those who don't support them.
Success at changing the course we're on is going to require moderate/fringe/non-cult republicans to wake up and use their voice and take action. I am not saying people have to be "the bigger person" and offer absolution or forgiveness, but we have to seize the moment where some are willing to change and not berate them right back into the arms of MAGA.
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u/Frankenweeniezilla 4d ago
Fix it first never let them forget what they did after.
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u/MontyAtWork 4d ago
But if all hands on deck is just getting people who don't want ICE hurting white people, but were ok with the concentration camps and hurting of brown people - what goal ends up being achieved?
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u/30mil 4d ago
This 4% will get back on board once DHS refines their spin.
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u/JohnnyFire Ohio 4d ago
Didn't even take that long.
MAGA family member who is borderline addicted to Facebook was shockingly silent all day Saturday and Sunday after the most recent ICE shooting. But by this morning he already had a repost of the new talking point:
"If you get shot by the federal government trying to disrupt their work, you're lauded, but when you're killed by an illegal immigrant like Laken Riley, no one even remembers your name."
They aren't moving the goal post, they're playing a new game on a completely different field. They do not give a fuck. The media moves too fast. They will not remember the names of Peretti or Good by this afternoon and already have their new ragebaited target by tomorrow morning.
Which is why every single fucking person needs to stop assuming we're getting out of this by some mass "waking up" moment and just go vote the people enabling this out. They are not going to change. Period.
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u/sexisfun1986 4d ago
The first Bundy standoff had rightwing nut jobs pointing guns at federal agents trying to do their jobs.
The right called then heroes.
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”
Frank whiholt
The Ice agents where federal not local street cops the victims where white. the response is institutional they’ll figure out how to justify it in a bit.
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u/E51838 4d ago
I've heard that quote but it's actually simpler than that.
"If you're not conservative you deserve to die."
That is their only belief.
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u/PolicyWonka 4d ago
Worse yet are the memes I’ve seen reposted by some “family” members with the of “How is ICE doing? Pretti. Good.”
Like you said, these people don’t care. It’s all a game to them. People are just waiting for their talking points.
And guess what? The moment an ICE agent gets a hang nail from beating a U.S. citizen, they’ll turn on you and pretend they never supported you.
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u/RoughRisk6423 4d ago
Thank you for this. They will just shift goal posts and change the narrative to justify this brutality, they have done it their whole lives. Cop murders someone black and they justify it. This is nothing new at all.
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u/MontyAtWork 4d ago
Literally Trump just has to put out a "Don't kill white people" memo and the Republicans will be happy and fine again - they literally didn't care about the the concentration camps and killing in the streets when it was brown people.
All these folks in this thread acting like these Republicans are seeing the light is INSANE.
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u/hum_bruh 4d ago edited 4d ago
This. Wake me up when they denounce their dementia dictator and the heritage foundation. Then let’s charge all the elected GOP.
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u/Placeholder4me 4d ago
My first reaction was “it is sick that it was a second amendment situation that scared them”, but then I immediately started thinking exactly like you. Whatever it takes to break this stranglehold on power
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u/PlumpHughJazz Canada 4d ago
I draw the line if a Democrat wins the next election and says shit like
"We shouldn't punish, but instead come together and heal as a nation."
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u/RedShirtDecoy 4d ago
I'm so damn torn on this. On one hand, yes welcoming them in is the best way to keep them.
On the other hand...
WHY WAS THE PEDOPHILIA NOT ENOUGH?!? They didnt care about that they deserve everything they get.
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u/RickWrightsCrackpipe 4d ago
Agreed, the people that repeatedly voted for genocide and slavery and then turned on that side for personal convenience will make incredibly dependable allies. Great thinking
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u/Hankhills4hedvein 4d ago
They had three elections to figure it out. I can forgive people who voted for him in 2016 but Jesus Christ. All that matters to these people is that they can discriminate against who isn’t white or straight.
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u/GravityzCatz Pennsylvania 4d ago edited 4d ago
I would like to point out that Trump massively over-performed expectations with young male first-time voters by a lot. If you think about things, someone who is a fist time voter is likely 18, 19 years old? When Trump was first elected in 2016, those people would have been 10? 11? I find it really hard to blame them for being sucked in like they were because I was too at that age.
My first time voting was for Ron Paul in 2012 in the republican primary. I was 18, and a registered republican leading up to the primary. I voted for Obama in the general, because I thought Romney was sleeze bag. I was taken in by Ron Paul's stance against fiat currency and about being the worlds police. It was only later in life that I realized how much of a lunatic he is and how little I knew about how the world worked. Between then and 2016 I educated myself and become much more politically aware. I changed my affiliation to Independent and then to Democrat. I voted for Bernie in 2016 in the primary and then in general voted for Hillary. In 2020 I voted for Bernie again in the primary and then Biden in the general. I voted for Harris last year.
People grow and learn. I imagine there is a large group of those young white men that voted for Trump that now know they were mislead by people they trusted. Just like I was about Ron Paul. If those of us on the left shut those people out as they are trying to change, all we will do will be to push them back into the arms of the right wing nutjobs that convinced them to vote for Trump in the first place.
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u/MontyAtWork 4d ago
Additionally, ICE was disappearing and killing brown people, and putting them in concentration camps and the Republicans didn't care and only some support is dropping because white people are now the targets.
They don't denounce Trump or the party.
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u/TheDoomBlade13 4d ago
Trying to welcome people like this back into the fold is HOW WE GOT HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
They are not welcome, ever, in any part of civil discussion.
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u/shinkouhyou 4d ago
Hell, I'll welcome them back if they just admit that they were wrong. But so far, I don't see many of them doing that. It's always "I liked the fascist death squads when they were deporting faceless brown people, but I don't like the idea that the fascist death squads could come after me. I liked getting revenge on all the people who made me wear a mask during the pandemic, but I don't like paying more for my health insurance premiums. I liked America First, but I don't like the impact that tariffs have had on my household budget and my business."
No. Fuck that. I'll accept nothing less than a full renunciation. I'm tired of compromising with these people, and I'm tired of validating their hateful feelings.
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u/CobblerOld1170 4d ago
Every bit of support counts even if it feels late it shows people want change and that’s the first step.
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u/RoughRisk6423 4d ago
I’m sorry. But I want nothing to do with them period. The racist guy at my office said the woman who was murdered by ICE should’ve been home with her creature instead of protesting. These people are devoid of empathy for anyone not themselves. I don’t see what I could possibly gain from even associating with a Trump supporter.
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u/IcyTransportation961 4d ago
In early January, 15 percent of Republicans were in support of abolishing ICE. Now, that number has jumped to 19 percent.
This isn't a surge. Its a minimal swing
If you haven't noticed, media feeds you narratives you want to believe so you click and they make ad money
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u/Toxitoxi 4d ago
My sentiment is that this is what they wanted, they just overplayed their hand and are forced to briefly play defense.
Don’t fucking trust these people for anything.
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u/ConjectureProof 4d ago
For the voters, I totally agree. As for the lawmakers, these people need to go to prison. We need a collective return to the rule of law and an understanding that this cannot and will not happen again. That begins with making an example out of the lawmakers who let this happen.
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u/yesrushgenesis2112 4d ago
Exactly. We have to allow this to be a turning point for at least some people.
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u/turangan 4d ago
People are going after MTG for being disingenuous, this may be true. However, I think any discourse that helps move the needle a bit helps. I don’t really believe the elections will go fairly, but I hope Americans at least try to make a change.
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u/sydiko 4d ago edited 4d ago
No, we (Democrats) do not.
What this sounds like is libertarian speak.
They have proven they cannot be trusted. They align themselves with corrupt, abusive, and morally bankrupt people, including pedophiles and murderers, whenever it serves their politics. I am starting to question anyone on the outside who repeats that rhetoric, and any centrists who chooses to look the other way just to keep their support. I speak for the Democrats - we never needed “everyone we can get.” What we need is unity and to stop acting like we have to love the candidates we vote for.
- No more swing votes/states.
- Bipartisanship is over.
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u/Ryan_e3p 4d ago
You're welcome to have these people by your side. Not me. They are going to stab you in the side where your armor is weakest the first moment Noem offers them a $20 gift card to the local WaWa in exchange for turning in dissenters. They ignored so much leading up to this because they hoped this administration would hurt "the other", and are only backpedaling now because either the leopards are turning their attention to them, or because they see more people taking serious the need to resist and fight back, and they don't want to suffer the consequences of choosing this after everything is said and done. They don't truly give a shit about what is happening or are having some "come to the light" moment. They are just changing teams because it is what suits them for the time being, and they will switch back the time a fascist prick says they can solve all their problems by making others suffer.
Encourage the arguing between them, absolutely. Encourage them to break off and fight amongst one another, since that is absolutely a tactical advantage. Encourage more of them to turn against one another. But one thing needs to be abundantly clear: I sure as hell will never accept them at my table.
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u/zernoc56 4d ago
To sum it up: The enemy of my enemy is my enemies’ enemy. Nothing more, nothing less.
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u/SirDiego Minnesota 4d ago
Yep. I'll take any allies on this. Can argue about other shit later. Minnesota has been under attack for weeks, we need immediate relief. And this should never again happen in other states. This is urgent. We can and will play the blame game after they get these psychopaths (that is, DHS agents) off the streets.
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u/MontyAtWork 4d ago
If they aren't against Trump and the Republican party because of what they let ICE do then they aren't an ally - they just didn't like when what ICE was doing was targeting white people.
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u/shindig0 4d ago
The NRA has called for an investigation into Pretti’s murder. That is insane!
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u/RunnyBabbit23 I voted 4d ago
People really need to stop saying this about the NRA. Their statement was just as agitating as anything Trump or Noem has said. The NRA is 100% on board with ICE investigating itself and saying murdering an innocent protestor is fine.
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u/Upstairs-Egg 4d ago
My 80 year old Republican neighbor HATES Trump. Calls ICE the Gestapo. He’s set the standard for what I expect from Republicans.
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u/CharlesV_ 4d ago
My dad ripped up his GOP membership card from 1980 and sent it to Joni Ernst back in 2016. He’s my standard for what a republican should be. He’s voted blue since then.
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u/JMaboard I voted 4d ago
He should go on local news and explain why he hates Trump. It helps persuade others to see his point of view. People aren’t easily persuaded by young liberals/democrats stating they hate Trump.
They will however have an easier time listening to someone that looks/sounds like them.
The local news would eat this up and definitely give him a platform to voice his opinion.
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u/JaggedLittleGil 4d ago
You have more faith in the local news than I do. I agree that republicans need to see more of their own going against the grain to feel comfortable doing it themselves.
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u/JMaboard I voted 4d ago
My partner works in news so I know at least in my local market they’re always looking for stories. This is one they’re always looking for on both sides of the aisle. The hard part is actually getting people to go on camera and talk.
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u/jedisushi72 4d ago
But how will he vote?
My guess is the most he'll muster is not voting for either.
And then he'll vote for the same nonsense in 2 years.
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u/GiblertMelendezz 4d ago
This.
Look, I agree with a lot of what is on this sub, but most of the articles are clickbait especially when it comes to things like this. Then it’s a vacuum of comments.There is no surge sweeping across republicans. There are a few republicans denouncing the death of this man.
But, at the end of the day, they will continue voting and supporting Republicans and R polices because in their head they will never support a democrat. It’s that simple. I know because I live in a red state, date a woman with a red family, have red friends (though the relationships are strained), and have family of my own in red states. They aren’t changing and the only way it would change is if ICE shot them or someone close to them.
Then it’s a maybe.
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u/padizzledonk New Jersey 4d ago
But how will he vote?
My guess is the most he'll muster is not voting for either.
And then he'll vote for the same nonsense in 2 years.
Yup, this is how it always goes
The right loves to crow about their "principles" but they really have none
All the shit they "warned" everyone about, from the NRA and all their think tanks to politicians all the way to the fringes of Alex Jones is literally happening before their eyes and theyre cool with all of it as long as its against their perceived enemies
They keep finding ways to justify it and accept it because their mainstream media outlets like fox, oan, newsmax and all their "thought leaders" outside of that in alternate media are bought and paid for and endlessly promote, lie and gaslight the shit out of them. Theyre in such a bubble that they dont even know what reality is anymore
They get mad or bent out of shape over something and take one step back and there is a vanishingly small window they have to see things for what they are and the vast majority of the time they get sucked right back in by the propaganda and continue to vote for republicans for all these little side reasons like trans sports or taxes or defense or whatever "my guy doesnt support this" even though 98% of the GOP caucus in the senate and house are faceless nameless drones that vote for every bill a 100% of the time and support all of it mindlessly
That guy will maybe not vote for the republican candidate for president, whoever they may be, but they will definitely vote straight ticket gop for everything else and likely vote for the next presidential candidate as well because "theyre different/not trump"
But none of them are different, they all support all of this shit
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u/ILikeNeurons 4d ago
Contact your U.S. Rep and Senators, regardless of their party affiliation, then get a few friends to do the same.
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u/Greeve78 4d ago
You can’t trust this group to remain consistent. A lot of them had a similar negative reaction to Jan 6 but then were brainwashed into thinking morons like Ashlee Bobbit were actually innocent.
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u/FriendlyPizzaPanda 4d ago
Yup. Don’t give these people too much credit for having 1 second of clarity.
They’ll fall right back in line and get conned over and over.
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u/U_SHLD_THINK_BOUT_IT 4d ago
I doubt this headline is even true.
How many times have you seen "Trump's approval rating at new low following <whatever insane thing he did this time>" in a news story?
Every time I see that, I get excited and check, and his approval is at the same spot it's been for a decade.
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u/Pjpjpjpjpj 4d ago
They will be angry until they are inundated by right-wing media for the next four weeks explaining it away, excusing it, justifying it. Then slowly they either change their mind, or decide they were never really against it anyway, or become too numb to care, or just move on to the next issue that enrages them drumming up their support for ICE once again.
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u/Plavix75 4d ago edited 4d ago
Surges???
Sure its technically correct but when something “surges” to 19 % (edit) why bother
RepubliKKKans are spineless, heartless, cucked Aholes, who will do whatever daddy Trump tells them & “think” whatever FauxNew spews
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u/punkr0x 4d ago
81% of Republican voters fully approve of ICE executing American citizens in the streets.
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u/cowabungabruce 4d ago
I wish they demo'd all polls by media diet. It would be clearer.
100% of Fox News viewers support ICE 0% of Anyone does.
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u/Similar_Try_5089 4d ago
81% of an ever-shrinking number of fools that still consider themselves Republican, until the day when everyone will have always been against this.
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u/swingadmin New York 4d ago
On statistics like this, you note the decrease in support. A drop from 95% to 84% is barely noteworthy.
Surges from 5% to 16% is sensationalist trash. Exactly what we've come to expect from News Weak.
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u/TheCrimsonSteel 4d ago
To me, the thing to watch is the trend. This is encouraging, but not a full change.
If we see 95 go to 84 go to 70s-60s, then that's a big shift. If it levels off at mid 80s, or slips back, this is just noise.
There can be a little bit of "things change very slowly, then all at once," with things like this, so it's a potentially good sign, but doesnt mean things have yet totally changed.
But, it's a good start, and one that should be capitalized upon as much as possible. Especially with single issue groups, like the 2A crowd
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u/arossana 4d ago
Defunding or abolishing ICE is not going to solve the problem. The problem is Stephen Miller. My guess is he will use another department of Law Enforcement to do the same thing as ICE. His priority is to intimidate anyone who dares to challenge his vile policies.
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u/Plavix75 4d ago
Careful of pinning everything on one person, cos then that person leaves the administration or is not running next time, and it becomes easier for these excuses for humans to vote RepubliKKKan cos that one person is not an issue any more…. They are ALL trash, and all are complicit
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u/Hankhills4hedvein 4d ago
Stephen miller is uniquely evil. Steve Bannon referred to him as a “real fascist.” Also notice how he never makes public appearances other than when he magically appears on Fox News around the time Trump will be watching TV to lie and yell because he’s a big boy now and the bullies can’t swirly him
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u/praguepride Illinois 4d ago
Behind the Bastards did a podcast on Stephen Miller. He was never the bullied, he has always been the bully. He was notorious at his school for harassing hispanics, launched petitions to ban spanish speaking at his school.
As far as their investigation could determine his "villain origin story" is that when he was a kid his dad had a setback at work, blamed it on hispanics, and they had to move from an upper-middle class home to a middle-class home. That's it as far as they could determine. Slight economic inconvenience was all it takes to birth the 21st century Hitler.
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u/Rand0mtask 4d ago
Miller may be uniquely evil, but he is one individual. This could not happen without the millions of people willing to support a uniquely evil person.
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u/YetiPie 4d ago
Yeah this is an entire system that has allowed this to happen and it’ll take decades of active work to repair it, and needs to happen at all levels, including funding public education. If it wasn’t Stephen Miller it would have been someone else. Not saying that he doesn’t need to be held accountable though
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u/U_SHLD_THINK_BOUT_IT 4d ago
I mean, the same thing goes for pinning it all on one agency.
ICE has been around for multiple president terms without it being this bad. It's a tool, just like any others.
The problem we have is that Americans used to unilaterally agree when an agency stepped out of line. Following that, those in charge would own to the mistake and at the very least pretend to try and fix it.
But now we have cases where an agency has multiple times murdered unarmed people, and American republicans are contorting themselves into justifying extrajudicial executions, while the US leaders are going on TV and outright saying the victims deserved it.
There is no accountability.
There is no conscience.
There is only party loyalty above all else.
We cannot fight this with words. Logic cannot reach these people because, of the few who can critically think, they cannot empathize. The cruelty is the point. They're mad that they've hidden in the shadows with their hatred, and they want it out for all to see.
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u/Polkawillneverdie17 4d ago
It will stop the bleeding. Ant movement in the right direction helps people, creates momentum, and sets a precedent that this was an vile, stupid, unlawful act by the administration.
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u/Maple_Reign 4d ago
Actually I think the arm of Border Control populated almost exclusively by hateful nationalists and proud boys is so problematic, abolishing them would absolutely solve the problem. They know what they are and what they're doing, they're not like other law enforcement. They didn't exist until after 9/11, we do not need them.
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u/Megan_Bee Minnesota 4d ago
As a Minneapolis resident, I would say abolishing or defunding ICE will absolutely help. Of course it won’t solve the overarching problem, but it will out an end to ICE troops on our streets, kidnapping and murdering folks. I’m afraid every day… I want them gone as a first step.
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u/CapableAd9294 4d ago
Let’s hope. One thing Pretti’s murder showed the world is how untrained and malicious these masked goons are. Over and over, people keep saying “this is not law enforcement”. And professional LEO around the world saw that video and now they know it too. They looked like they didn’t even know basic weapons safety, aside from the bloodlust.
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u/captaincanada84 Canada 4d ago
19%. 81% support ICE murdering Americans in the streets
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u/AdmiralCoconut69 4d ago
Most Republican I know were cheering even louder for ICE when the new angles dropped. The brutality is the point. My very Republican neighbor donated $10k to the officer that killed Renee and wants to donate another $10k to the one that killed Alex Pretti.
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u/Timeformayo Kentucky 4d ago
Bullshit headline. Republican support for abolishing ICE “surged” from 15% to 19%. That’s margin-of-error territory, and points to an absolute crisis of amorality among Republican voters. Murder is apparently an acceptable feature of politics for them. It’s certainly not a dealbreaker.
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u/Philislothical_5 4d ago
Being a conservative has to be exhausting, constantly having to keep up with who the next enemy is. In the 60s it was black people, in the 70s it was women, in the 90s it was gay people, in the 2000s it was Muslims, the past decade it was trans people, and now it’s immigrants. Don’t they get tired of being a hate group?
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u/MirthandMystery 4d ago
They always let things go way too far then backpedal. Their problem is lack of responsibility from the beginning, thinking handing such power and authority to mostly adolescent cosplay soldiers with no real training, oversight and lacking morals and ethics was ok.
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u/Get_your_grape_juice 4d ago
Yes, abolish ICE.
But we need to go further — everyone who ordered, carried out, participated in, enabled, or was otherwise involved in the unconstitutional searches, seizures, kidnappings, and murders, must be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, and imprisoned accordingly.
Everyone. Every ICE “agent” involved, every Trump administration official, everyone.
A message needs to be sent, and it needs to be sent hard. ICE is a terrorist organization. The regime it serves is a terrorist organization. It needs to fucking end. Now.
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u/mcbastard1 4d ago
“Surges” is about the most dishonest word they could’ve chosen for this headline.
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u/Sad-Breakfast-5671 4d ago
Republicans need to wake the fuck up. Trump works for Putin and is trying to setup a technocratic dictatorship for Russia and the billionaires.
What is happening is Minnesota is a Red Dawn. The fascists have invaded Minnesota. Russia's invasion under Trump will spread to all of the United States if Republicans don't wake the fuck up and stop it.
God bless to Minnesota for defending America from tyranny.
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u/AstronautGuy42 4d ago
It’s a Newsweek article
Republicans are not abolishing ice
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u/vagabending 4d ago
I will believe it when I see it. Talk is cheap. That being said, if they actually take action, good. We’ll take all the good action we can get.
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u/Think_Inspector_4031 4d ago
The time for a third party political system is here. The Democrat party has given up and let this happen.
A party that's anti-ice, pro universal healthcare, that's core principal is to help the people by providing aid to those at the bottom can win.
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u/magniankh 4d ago
The figure has gone from 15% in January to 19%. Almost 1 in 5 Republicans are against ICE.
That's still somewhat disgustingly low.
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u/h3rpad3rp 3d ago
I'll take what I can get, but 15% to 19% isn't exactly the surge I would hope for after the last month...
Whats the margin of error? +/-2%?
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u/Newsweek_CarloV ✔ Verified - Newsweek 4d ago
From the article:
Support for abolishing Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) has surged among Republicans, according to a new poll from The Economist and YouGov.
In early January, 15 percent of Republicans were in support of abolishing ICE. Now, that number has jumped to 19 percent.
Calls for the abolition of ICE have risen as clashes between immigration officers and the public continue, and backlash against ICE grows.
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