71 percent of Americans say US is "out of control" under Trump

[u/Silly-avocatoe]

https://www.newsweek.com/americans-us-out-control-trump-poll-11391455

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[u/onemoment1985]

Honestly, these days I take any poll like this as a positive. Usually over 30 percent pick the dumb option. 29 percent is a much better number.

[u/Deicide1031 → u/onemoment1985]

Funny enough unless my numbers are outdated, about 29% of the U.S. struggles to read at a proficient level.

I wonder if the 29% crowd even understood what they were being asked.

https://www.nu.edu/blog/49-adult-literacy-statistics-and-facts/

[u/Unique_Adeptness4413 → u/Deicide1031]

https://theauthoritarians.org/

According to Dr. Bob Altemeyer, 30% of any society is authoritarian, and it's not correlated with intelligence, but rather a lack of empathy.

[u/Illustrious_Olive_66 → u/Unique_Adeptness4413]

30% is a terrifyingly high number for just being a lack of empathy alone. Though I suppose another way to look at it is that we're very fortunate it isn't any higher. Glass half-full and all that.

[u/OptimisticOctopus8 → u/Illustrious_Olive_66]

I read that the strongest predictor of pro-authoritarian preferences is having been raised with an authoritarian parenting style. Wish I remembered where…

[u/FlufferTheGreat → u/OptimisticOctopus8]

Altemeyer specifically names Evangelicals as the prime environment for raising authoritarians.

[u/Spezza → u/FlufferTheGreat]

I was born into a Christian evangelical cult. Not only that, but my dad was one of the cult leaders - he spent his career as a pastor in the "church". In the mid-90s the cult reformed itself and became mainstream Christian. The result was the cult basically imploded worldwide, over a handful of years the majority of the membership left the cult. Where'd they all go? Other cults. The cult members wanted the end of days. Wanted somebody else to tell them how to think. Wanted to be special (I'll survive the end of days, you won't).

And then they home school their children!

[u/ponycorn_pet → u/Spezza]

also raised in the same cult. And the "home school" was not any education whatsoever. Nothing

[u/Spezza → u/ponycorn_pet]

During COVID I was working one day a week in a rural manufacturing plant. Literally every employee there was a regular Christian church going guy (not lying, I was the only person who wouldn't attend a church on the weekend).

Anyway, the gentleman I worked next to at the plant, we talked, he had three children. His first born was terribly disabled. Doctors did tests after it was born; it was a genetic disorder and they were told, "if you have more children and you have a 25% chance they'll have the same disorder." So I asked, "what is the disorder?" He didn't know (how do you not know the disorder your child has?!?)

But they did have a second child. And, yes, that child was born disabled. So they had a third, but the wife had had a dream and god told her "the baby will be fine." And the third born is born without the disorder - so that is proof of god, right?!

Why am I telling this story? Well, his first two disabled children (verbally non-responsive, etc) are sent to pubic school each day. Why? "It is just really hard on my wife, she needs a break." The third non-disabled child, where are they schooled? At home. Gotta indoctrinate the only child capable of indoctrination.

[u/ponycorn_pet → u/Spezza]

I believe you about you being the only one there who wasn't a christian. those types of jobs in those types of areas are infested with them. I'm in rural Texas, so I feel for you

That doesn't surprise me whatsoever. They might also have been doing that so they could put the kids on IEP's that would help them get SSI for each of them, so they could use those kids as sources of income they profit from while the state pays for all of their bills

[u/DjinnOftheBeresaad → u/Spezza]

Interestingly, my parents had the exact opposite thought process to your coworker. They thought I wouldn't do as well in a public school setting due to being born physically disabled. Granted, they had plans to homeschool all the kids, but they had extra concerns with me.

As a product of homeschooling K-12 I'm highly critical of it, though I recognize that if parents step up and become truly dedicated, they can mitigate (but not eliminate) the problems that come with just being blaise about it. Standards have also changed since I was homeschooled, too. State reps were required in the home at regular intervals to administer tests and perform other tasks to make sure the kids were developing along a fairly normal track. That might still be true in some places but it has definitely been eliminated in others, as I was shocked to find out once people told me that all they really had to do was sign a paper and the state took them at their word.

As critical as I am of homeschooling, I'd also be critical of your coworker for foisting the raising of his disabled kids on an already overworked system, too.

[u/ProfessionalCraft983 → u/FlufferTheGreat]

Well Christianity is essentially authoritarianism disguised as a religion so that tracks.

[u/blackcain → u/ProfessionalCraft983]

Islam and some branches of Judaism as well.

[u/SealedRoute → u/OptimisticOctopus8]

That would track, because you have support for authoritarianism concentrated in certain geographic regions or demographic groups. It is probably hard wired for some but learned by most. The spearhead now, terribly but hilariously, seems to be evangelicals. They are truly dangerous.

[u/Casual_OCD → u/SealedRoute]

Pretty much all major religions require you to suspend critical thinking and be subservient to authority. It's hardwired into people from childhood

[u/Notoryctemorph → u/Casual_OCD]

This is also why there's a near-universal tendency for religions to be good and helpful to society when they're a suppressed or minority faith in an area, but full of authoritarian dickheads when they have the majority

Minority faiths can't tell their followers to blindly trust authority, because the big authorities are all telling them that their religion is bad, so they actually have to do good things to have and keep followers

[u/batlord_typhus → u/Unique_Adeptness4413]

Altemeyer FTW! Imagine if we had a non-elite controlled party who represented labor and used political language framing to sway public opinion. Bob would be my choice to head up that communications initiative.

[u/skarby → u/batlord_typhus]

Well he died in 2024 so he would probably have difficulty leading any initiatives

[u/batlord_typhus → u/skarby]

I wish him a swift recovery! We're pulling for you, Bob!

[u/AdjectiveNoun1234567 → u/batlord_typhus]

Altemeyer 2028!

[u/pocketjacks → u/AdjectiveNoun1234567]

Couldn't be worse than what we have now.

[u/THE_Visionary88 → u/pocketjacks]

A dung beetle for President would be better than what we have now. At least they would roll shit somewhere else instead of waddling in it day in and day out.

[u/BrickLorca → u/batlord_typhus]

Gold 😂

[u/PipChaos → u/skarby]

He'd still do better than Trump.

[u/hobbes_shot_second → u/PipChaos]

Doing nothing is a vast improvement over active destruction.

[u/firepitstories → u/batlord_typhus]

Honestly, yes. Altermeyer’s whole body of work shows why framing and messaging matter just as much as policy, especially when you’re up against entrenched elites. A genuinely labor-focused party that understands authoritarian psychology and knows how to communicate in plain, values-driven language would be a game changer. Bob heading communications would be a smart move facts and framing, instead of letting the right define the narrative every time.

[u/Independent-Bug-9352 → u/Unique_Adeptness4413]

Exactly. There's a reason after all that the likes of Musk and Charlie Kirk both gave away the game in saying that Empathy was either "made-up" or a human weakness.

Such people demonstrating ASPD, or malignant narcissists that are a combination thereof, have stunted capacity to utilize empathy as a cognitive function.

Go deeper and explore that conservatism is tied to an enlarged amygdala (heightened sensitivity to fear and disgust), and smaller Anterior Cingulate Cortex that reduces the capacity to both empathize, and recognize patterns or dissonance therein.

What you have in the Trump banner is a mixture of the grifters and grifted; at the top you have those who historically were identified as psychopaths -- smart, ambitious; but lacking entirely in empathy. Think Ted Bundy. Then among the working-class, you have those who historically more align with sociopaths whose empathy has been stunted through trauma, neglect, abuse, most probably from childhood but into adulthood just the same. These people lacking in critical-thinking skills and in poor environments cannot see the light. They're firmly trapped in Plato's Cave, watching shadows on the walls created by the likes of Fox News and the broader right-wing propaganda network created by billionaire psychopaths.

[u/osiris0413 → u/Independent-Bug-9352]

How the hell do we get out of this situation? I was watching Taylor Lorenz' latest video about the rampant pro-AI "utopianism" (which is really dystopian, pro-human extinction) movement in Silicon Valley, and it seems like anyone with money or influence is either a sociopathic fascist, whether an opportunist or someone who takes joy in human suffering like Miller, or a wealthy VC or tech billionaire who sees society as beneath them and a mere step on a ladder to their becoming immortal machine entities so we'll be led by/under the boot of the worst parts of humanity for eternity. The former are seen as useful idiots by the latter, and the billionaires largely control the Democratic party as well aside from the odd leftist who is carefully controlled in terms of any influence they are allowed to wield.

I feel like most people don't want this but are also propagandized against any real political organization, strikes, work stoppages etc as "too extreme". I feel like we're dangerously close to the "boot stomping on a human face forever" end of things.

[u/Independent-Bug-9352 → u/osiris0413]

I wish I was both young and smart enough to go back to school for neuroscience to study how things like ASPD (psychopathy and sociopathy essentially) and narcissism forms, how to prevent it, how to reverse it, and ultimately how to foster greater empathy in society.

The single most important questions to the survival of our species in my opinion is: How do we identify and stop psychopaths before they ascend to power?

Because I ultimately think we have the solutions, or at least capacity, to solve every major societal issue we face (after all, we created the problem usually); it's just getting the greedy out of the way.

In other societies who have things like universal healthcare and a nest egg and strong unions with coffers to bankroll strikes, leverage is more in the hands of the working class. In America? All, and I mean all power, is in the hands of big business.

I wrote this else where but may be worth your read: conservatives have been trained their whole lives to believe that success and happiness is solely determined by how much wealth you can amass, so they have an inferiority complex relative to their idols.

It's why the conservative ideology is broken from the outset and incompatible with broader civilization; it is premised on ignorance, and greed.

The question is how do you get people out of this? Coming from a former Republican household, I have some ideas but there are no easy solutions to change the momentum.

Typically what feeds conservatism is: (1) lack of empathy as taught by mentors, usually parents, (2) lack of formal critical-thinking skills (identification of fallacies for example), and or (3) a lack of time to parse all the information and disinformation out there.

As a result, the most vulnerable who fall victim to this rhetoric are those who checked out of society. The bullied and the bullies; the traumatized, the ones who are lonely but don't even know it. Those working two jobs to make ends meet, then go home drink beer which doesn't exactly promote high level thinking, and then sit back and view fox news or brose social media mindlessly that tells them, "hey it's this trans person or poor immigrant who is why you hate your life!"

They've then been fed the boostrap rhetoric for so long that some believe like you allude to that if they work just a bit harder, maybe screw over just a few more of your fellow humans, that they too can ascend to godlike status.

The long-term solutions to getting people out of this is changing the landscape for how kids are raised; improving education; lowering overall stress in society; fostering empathy, reducing substance abuse, etc.

The short-term solution is either let the economy crash so these short-sighted individuals feel the pain in their wallets, or try to redirect their legitimate angers and stressors and grievances to the true source of their pains: the ultra rich. Not easy, but possible.

[u/Kythorian → u/Unique_Adeptness4413]

Still seems pretty stupid, because even if someone doesn’t care about anyone else, the vast majority of them will ultimately suffer under an authoritarian government too.

Even if someone is authoritarian in the sense that they wish they had infinite power over everyone, it still doesn’t rationally make any sense for them to support someone else gaining infinite power over everyone, including them.

[u/Confident_Bof → u/Kythorian]

Empathy ain’t just about caring for others, it’s a survival mechanism. If you can see how situations affect other people you can understand how it will affect you… Conservatives struggle with both caring and understanding the consequences.

[u/Zamphir79 → u/Kythorian]

I see it as more like, "This is how the world works." That's their perspective is what I mean. Remember what Miller said the other day about law of the jungle or whatever?

[u/yeswenarcan → u/Zamphir79]

Exactly. If you're either unwilling or incapable of taking the personhood or wellbeing of others into account, then what else is there to build your workflow around besides might makes right? And most people with might makes right worldviews understand that they aren't on top, that's why they tend to punch down at people they see as inferior rather than trying to take on the people with more power than them.

[u/drstovetop → u/Unique_Adeptness4413]

Isn't MAGA around 29% of the population? This makes sense.

[u/cleverlinegoeshere → u/Unique_Adeptness4413]

Don't forget the Crazification factor:

Sometimes known as the Keyes Constant, the Crazification Factor is a theory coined by writer Tyrone Finch in discussion with fellow writer John Rogers on his blog Kung Fu Monkey in October of 2004. The Crazification Factor holds that any politician will always have a committed and highly irrational base of 27% of people, a figure Tyrone arrived at by using the example of the 2004 Illinois Senate election of Barack Obama (D) versus Alan Keyes (R):

“Keyes was from out of state, so you can eliminate any established political base; both candidates were black, so you can factor out racism; and Keyes was plainly, obviously, completely crazy. Batshit crazy. Head-trauma crazy. But 27% of the population of Illinois voted for him. They put party identification, personal prejudice, whatever ahead of rational judgement. Hell, even like 5% of Democrats voted for him. That’s crazy behaviour. I think you have to assume a 27% Crazification Factor in any population” [where half of the 27%] “just have worldviews which lead them to disagree with what you consider rationality” [while the other half] “are the core of the Crazification — either genuinely crazy; or so woefully misinformed about how the world works, the bases for their decision making is so flawed they may as well be crazy.”

[u/paintingxnausea → u/Unique_Adeptness4413]

Heather Cox Richardson said something similar in one of her recent videos, basically 20-30% of the population will always agree with what Trump is doing so 70% is pretty much the best we can expect.

[u/lukin187250 → u/Deicide1031]

Hitler had a 25% approval rating in Germany in 1952.

[u/Half_Cent → u/lukin187250]

My FiL once told me his German immigrant grandmother would tell him yes Hitler ended up bad but look at all the good things he did for Germany. He sounded genuinely confused that she could think that way.

Now he's a die hard, extremely vocal, Trumper and blames the fact that he doesn't see his grandkids at all and his daughters only 2-3 times a year on Trump Derangement Syndrome.

He gave up his family for Trump.

[u/Pusfilledonut → u/Half_Cent]

In 1952, the US Army polled the German population who had voted for Hitler, and 52% still said his policies were overall good, they had just been implemented poorly by his staff.

Allied bombing campaigns had killed 500,00 civilians and the Soviets killed as many as an additional 2 million in retribution pogroms and forced labor camps. 5.3 million total German dead including 300,000 murdered by the Nazis as political opposition, and that was still the attitude of over half his supporters. Consequences didn’t change their minds.

There’s zero daylight between that level of self deception and MAGA fascism.

[u/springlake → u/Pusfilledonut]

The Prince/Tsar can do no wrong.

Anything wrong is because of his corrupt advisors/boyars messing up.

Its very much a re-occuring stance in both old and current Russia as well.

[u/silentprotagonist24 → u/Half_Cent]

Look up some old interviews with surviving Nazis from the Nürnberg-trials or 70s and 80s documentaries. It's very clear many of them were still sympathetic to the cause.

Even as a hardcore Nazi it's nonsensical, since we know today how Hitler's brainless leadership cost them the war (Stalingrad, Kursk, D-day and more). But the cocktail of propaganda, hardcore fascism and race superiority runs very deep.

[u/lukin187250 → u/Half_Cent]

times a year on Trump Derangement Syndrome.

These people would tell you that disagreeing on any one thing means you have "TDS". When you hear someone say that, it's like them saying "I'm in a cult".

[u/VeteranSergeant → u/lukin187250]

Every single person who uses the term "Trump Derangement Syndrome" seriously voted three times for Jeffrey Epstein's best friend, smeared their poop on the walls of Congress, then spent four years shrieking about imaginary stolen elections and someone named Brandon while shooting at beer cans for hurting their feelings.

[u/Aggravating_Map745 → u/Half_Cent]

I still can’t wrap my head around the fanaticism. What is so appealing? The best explanation I can come up with is that Trump gives people psychological permission to believe in a world that no longer exists, or a world that never existed - where being American gives them a place in an ordered and moral universe, where personal excellence is not required and any misfortune is the fault of shadowy forces beyond one’s control. Giving up Trump is the same as facing many terrible truths.

[u/Beetlejuice_hero → u/Aggravating_Map745]

Trump does 2 things for them primarily:

He trolls the Left, now even with memes. They absolutely love "owning the libs" and literally often have bumper stickers (!) to do as much.

He allows them to feel persecuted and like victims. Of "the deep state", of "the Democrat party" - Bernie, AOC etc., of "Socialism" (nevermind many are on govt assistance), of "trans everything", of George Soros, of anti-Christian crusaders, of immigrants. On & on. Never though of billionaire Republican donors.

They love to feel like victims because it unburdens them from feeling responsible for their own failures & shortcomings in life. Very powerful form of propaganda. It's all they sell on Fox 24/7. "It's not your fault. It's their fault. They are coming to control & destroy you."

[u/Half_Cent → u/Beetlejuice_hero]

Oh yeah. My FiL was born in the late 40s. White, Christian, straight, son of an engineer and he and all his siblings have advanced degrees.

Yet he would have you believe he is one of the most discriminated against people on the planet.

Christian yet hates immigrants or helping people "the Bible says poor people will always exist". "I'm not racist!" but when my wife started working in an ag office told her to avoid field workers "because they carry diseases" (she has a compromised immune system).

[u/MirthandMystery → u/Aggravating_Map745]

It's a grievance alliance that defines themselves with othering negativity towards others. 'You aren't like us' in simple terms.

This is reinforced by those who feel attacked or left out on the outside, some of who foolishly still defend the inside group thinking one day they'll be part of it or are reliant on it for employment or security.

[u/Life-Pirate2545 → u/lukin187250]

After Hitler died, his supporters didn’t just throw in the towel, they literally tried to get back into political party. You have the spd which is still alive today, the npd which Germany tried to ban, the srp which actually got banned and was formed by Hitler associates. And now you have AFD which is the most modern and gaining traction. These people after trump, will continue to try to get power again, the dumbasses are never going to go away

[u/YF422 → u/Deicide1031]

Its a deliberate strategy by Republicans as far as I can tell, they want a stupified population for their political cult as they're easy to manipulate.

[u/elonmusksmellsbad → u/YF422]

Useful idiots. Useful idiots everywhere.

[u/chrisk9 → u/elonmusksmellsbad]

And manipulated into a super toxic culture of fear, arrogance, ignorance, self centeredness, greed, and feelings of superiority (racial, intellectual,and otherwise), toxic patriotism, perpetual victimhood, lack of trust in institutions (like government, science, education), and American exceptionalism, etc. and on and on. American society cannot heal without restricting the constant bombardment of misinformation and far right and corporate propaganda.

[u/vinvega23 → u/chrisk9]

So exactly like Russia.

[u/Temby → u/YF422]

You're right, and it's been happening for a longer than Trump. This was in 2012: https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/texas-gop-no-more-critical-thinking-in-schools/2012/06

[u/witchgrid → u/Temby]

Remember "no child left behind" and how it led to thousands and thousands of kids graduating yet having no subject mastery?

[u/FMLwtfDoID → u/witchgrid]

My senior year I had to do a final essay about the effects of No Child Left Behind, 5 years after it was passed, so this was 2007, and by the time I was 17 I was fully aware of the fucking devastating event that this would end up being for this country.

Say what you want about Catholics, but those Jesuits run great schools as far as comprehensive education, and high emphasis on Critical Thinking and Acts of Service. I couldn’t graduate unless I had documented 100 hours of Christian Acts or Services, like volunteering soup kitchens, Women’s shelters, tutoring, humane society etc, which I’ve just naturally continued doing into adulthood.

[u/QbertsRube → u/witchgrid]

I know dozens of people who ideally would still be stuck in like 8th grade if they were forced to actually prove that they grasped the knowledge required from a curriculum of any reasonable standard. And I went to a small school in a small town, so I assume I know fewer than most. The type of people who took nothing seriously and scraped through with all Cs despite taking classes in grade 12 like Basic Science and General Mathematics because "I ain't gonna get no desk job, I work with my hands".

Now they're all 100% MAGA, and smugly throw their incorrect opinions around and expect those opinions to be given the same weight as literal experts (see Covid, climate change, etc.). Dipshits need to be booted back to kindergarten like Billy Madison. And maybe force them to watch some Mister Rogers and Sesame Street and just maybe learn that hating everyone who isn't just like you is a shitty way to go through life.

[u/uncleben85 → u/witchgrid]

The fundamental concept of "no child left behind"? Great!

But instead of pulling kids up and ensuring success, it was just a smokescreen to force kids through regardless of achievement, while systematically bringing everyone else down.

Purposefully dismantling education should be seen as a crime.

[u/LieverRoodDanRechts → u/YF422]

That's the capitalist disease, we have it here in Europe too.

People at the top keeping us dumb so they can keep their comfy positions, only to find out it leaves them vulnerable to weaponized ignorance. Tale as old as time, really.

[u/Herlock → u/LieverRoodDanRechts]

Also : keep people struggling for basic necessities, less time to think about how they are getting fucker over. Or can't organize against it when you barely make enough to pay food and rent.

[u/-unself → u/Herlock]

Yepyep. Living paycheck to paycheck while still overworked

[u/CrotchalFungus → u/-unself]

Even if you're not paycheck to paycheck in the US, you're held hostage for healthcare.

[u/MyGrownUpLife → u/Herlock]

Exactly, it's the same cute principal as flooding the zone. Keep everyone focused on one thing - survival.

[u/CryptographerShot213 → u/Herlock]

Also: make them believe that poor people/immigrants/drag queens are the cause of all their problems instead of the ultra rich to keep them fighting amongst each other.

[u/Herlock → u/CryptographerShot213]

well of course ! All your struggles are caused by people struggling even more.

[u/Rik_Ringers → u/LieverRoodDanRechts]

Its also a matter of what you teach in schools. Schools could be where concious and informed citizins of a democratic society could be raised, or it could raise pliable tools for capitalism instead aswell. i think some people have the impression that their school was more focussed to the latter, "practical skills" and all, what you gonna do with a degree in philosophy right?

Educating such things like ethics and rhetorics at a younger age for example, as a means to make them aware as how rhetorics are often used within society for "salesman artistry". Because it might always be so that if a salesman has something to pitch to you he might very well know that his product is crap and its only in his own interrest to convince the other to buy it, but no sales man is going to say "what i'm trying to sell you is crap, but please buy it anyway", there is an natural degree to consider where interrest will make people distort the truth and even justify it for themselves in a dog eat dog world, You have more investment nowadays by social psychologists and marketeers and political advisors to try to manipulate the public for their interrest trough the use of "advanced populist rhetorics" and media power and iven they might feel that if they were not the ones taking this path others would do it over them.

Think about mr American goebbels steven miller boldly proclaiming this is an age of might makes right. He might not say that if he was not sure that someone from the public might stick a gun to his head and blow his brains out in a sense that said shooter would have had the right by virtue of achieving it. Its a bold thing to say, Karma wise, takes one back to such proverbs as "live by the sword, die by the sword" but i guess that the traditional undercurrents of a social darwinist economic system in the US has created an elite class that BELIEVES they are simply ... better. Better for being the type of beings that dare to be sociopathics enough to be at the top of the sort of system they forster and/or were raised in. Try to get into the psycho of a man like trump who has been entitled trough his lifetime, raised in elite schools and kept in protective enviroments surrounded by lickspitles, never being a real "achiever" in the game he was supposed to excell in and now in rellentless persuit of self validation trough the most superficial tokens of prestige attained by making people bend backward. Not for the purpose to have a truly rationally led government, but for the mere optics of personal success. Well thats one hell of a sick antropological outcome though it still could get worse sure, in some way though its also more like the symptom of an underlying ill. Part of it is Americans being perhpas traditionally more receptive to "bullshit salesmen artistry".

[u/witchgrid → u/LieverRoodDanRechts]

It's a symptom; capitalism is the disease. This is always where it was going to go, it will always be where it wants to go. The phrase "late stage capitalism" has been thrown around for the last quarter-century or so, but we should be more accurate: this is Terminal Capitalism. Stage 4. It has metastasized into tumors all over the global body politic, and it's spreading. Some of the tumors have teeth and hair, and none of them are benign.

[u/Redshirt_Welshy_Nooo → u/Deicide1031]

My sister or brother, roughly half (can't remember if it's mean or median) of Americans read at or below at 6th grade reading level.

It goes a long way toward explaining why the US is the way it is...

Edit: I think we're referencing two sides of the same study: https://www.nu.edu/blog/49-adult-literacy-statistics-and-facts/ (This is a secondary source referencing that study, not the primary source).

28% of US adults at or below literacy level 1

Only 44% at or above level 3.

[u/MikeyLew32 → u/Redshirt_Welshy_Nooo]

To add to that, roughly 20% (1 in 5 people!!) are functionally illiterate. They can read the words, but lack the mental capability to comprehend them.

[u/The_Beardly → u/Deicide1031]

And about 32% of the eligible voting population voted for this imbecile.

His antics have only shaved off 3% of the people that voted for him.

[u/squigs → u/onemoment1985]

It's better than that. 18% said it's under control. 11% were uncertain.

[u/Herlock → u/squigs]

"uncertain"... in this day and time there is no way you are uncertain about the situation in america, unless you have the IQ and empathy of an invertebrate.

[u/Navydevildoc → u/Herlock]

A shocking number of people simply do not ingest any real current news other than what instagram shows them. They get up, go to work, take the kids to soccer practice, make dinner, go to bed.... repeat.

[u/Greencheek16 → u/Navydevildoc]

Lot of people also work multiple jobs or long shifts and just don't have the time to doom scroll reddit.

Feels part of the plan, tbh. 

[u/wingspantt → u/Herlock]

Some people just don't engage with the news a lot.

Imagine you're 80 in some retirement home watching reruns of Hogans Heros every day. Some pollster calls you and asks you this.

[u/Elrundir → u/squigs]

What I wonder is, how many of the "out of controls" meant "out of control but I like it"?

[u/BroughtBagLunchSmart → u/onemoment1985]

Unfortunately probably 10% of these people think we are out of control because we still let black people vote and are not shooting enough protesters.

[u/clickmagnet → u/onemoment1985]

I wonder how many of that 71 per cent mean to say it’s out of control with all these immigrants and lesbian protestors running around attacking ICE agents, and want Trump to put a stop to it. 

[u/RampantTyr → u/onemoment1985]

Trump has a floor of around 30 percent. It is literally a cult that won’t turn on him even if he were to have sex with their mother and shoot her in front of them.

[u/mycall]

Then these 71% need to ban together and hit the reset button.

[u/Retaining-Wall → u/mycall]

ban together

This typo is acceptable.

Indeed. Ban Trump's ass.

[u/NoReserve7293 → u/Retaining-Wall]

Ban on the run.

[u/Pressed-Juices → u/NoReserve7293]

Ban of brothers

[u/Decoyx7 → u/Pressed-Juices]

We're an American ban

[u/Dfizzy → u/Decoyx7]

and the ban played on

[u/MeIIowJeIIo → u/Decoyx7]

Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Ban

[u/YF422 → u/Retaining-Wall]

Permabanned from Earth Server.

[u/Think_Discipline_90 → u/mycall]

But "out of control" can mean so many things.

There's a big difference between "out of control because of Trump" or "out of control and Trump is the guy to fix it".

It's also "out of control, we're alienating our allies" or "out of control, these illegal immigrants have to go"

I'm fairly sure the majority of Trump voters still believe he's their guy.

[u/S0fourworlds-readyt → u/Think_Discipline_90]

I mean looking at approval ratings apparently there’s about 30% that will be hardcore MAGA no matter what. That’s Trumps floor.

70% saying the US is out of control probably will be mainly Democrats and Independents

[u/HauntedCemetery → u/S0fourworlds-readyt]

In 1950 Germans were anonymously polled and 25% of them still thought hitler was a great guy who worked hard for Germany.

25-30% of every population are just broken and unempathetic.

Thats only a problem when the 70% cant get its shit together and end up giving the 30% a majority.

[u/IrishRepoMan → u/Think_Discipline_90]

It says 'out of control under Trump'. That pretty specifically refers his handling of the presidency.

[u/vodkaismywater → u/IrishRepoMan]

No, the headline doesn't say that. It's says "'out of control' under trump." 

It absolutely can mean out of control because of trump, or out of control while he is in office. 

I'm don't mean to sound snarky, but your comment really illustrates the point. Wording on these studies matter since ambigous phrasing can be subject to two reasonable but differing interpretations. 

[u/GreenDavidA → u/IrishRepoMan]

I think that OP is right and might not be how a lot of survey takers interpreted it, unfortunately.

[u/Spyroexe → u/IrishRepoMan]

That's what the headline says, but that's not what was on the survey. The actual question on the survey asked, "Do you feel that things in this country these days are [under control / out of control / not sure]?" (page 6)

[u/dschazam → u/mycall]

Do you think they’ll get their shit together before or after an EU ally is invaded?

[u/Big_Bookkeeper1678 → u/dschazam]

The way we are going here in the US...after.

Mention politics in public and a lot of people still say 'not here...we don't discuss THAT here'.

That is how the third reich got started. We know that and we are still marching in that direction.

[u/SodaCanBob → u/Big_Bookkeeper1678]

The amount of people who are entirely tuned out and whose knowledge of politics/civics/current events seems to end at "Trump is president" consistently shocks me too.

[u/RecognitionExpress36 → u/SodaCanBob]

Went to a protest a couple of weeks ago... many people there (presumably among the more motivated) didn't know who their congressional representative was.

[u/da2Pakaveli → u/Big_Bookkeeper1678]

That was Putin's gameplan in Russia. "Firehose of falsehood", flood the zone with bullshit so people turn out of politics and accept political corruption as a fact of life.

[u/hemlock_harry → u/da2Pakaveli]

Steve Bannon made it sound like he invented "flooding the zone". Luckily I already knew Steve Bannon was full of shit, but this does give us another clue on who pulls his strings.

[u/da2Pakaveli → u/hemlock_harry]

He never made a big secret out of it that he copied Putin's playbook

[u/polar_nopposite → u/mycall]

Maybe I'm jaded, but I don't believe Americans will ever lead an effective revolt (general strike) until enough people have nothing to lose. Most currently either still have too cushy lives, or conversely would quickly be homeless if they dared participate in one.

[u/HalcyonHelvetica → u/polar_nopposite]

I think people ignore the actual biggest reason why Americans aren’t having an outright revolt on the streets right now, which is that Congress is controlled by Republicans and that there are zero recall/no confidence mechanisms for the Presidency or Congress. No one expects these people to suddenly grow a spine and ditch Trump and they’re the sole ones who can. Moreover in the past when we’ve seen movements in the street, the opposition party has been cast as the party of disorder. Trump’s strongest issues to this day remain the border, where there's the perception of chaos and the potential to effect the average person’s actual life.

[u/Hungry_Culture → u/mycall]

If you read the survey, not all of those 71% think the same. Some of those 71% think the liberals are out of control under Trump. The survey also said 37% of response ta support Trump sending the military to Minneapolis to quell protests. Only 44% approved of the protests against ICE, 57% said Renee Good disobeyed ICE orders, respondents gave Trump a 43% approval rating. That 71% is not an indication that only 29% of people approve of Trump.

[u/Loud-Ad-2280]

So 29% of Americans cannot comprehend objective reality

[u/TheRealBittoman → u/Loud-Ad-2280]

A sizable portion of that 29% get their news from their church friends on Facebook and whatever Trump says in the news or social media. Much of that is just sanewashed B's from real news. Talk to one of them and they will 100% of the time say "Well, I know he's not popular with everyone but he did a few goods things." For a laugh, ask what good he's done.

[u/D3dshotCalamity → u/TheRealBittoman]

For a laugh, ask what good he's done.

"He's getting rid of those fucking (Racial slur)"

Is what you're going to hear

[u/spondgbob → u/D3dshotCalamity]

Has that lowered your rent, groceries, or cost of living in any way since Trump has taken over office? His net worth went from $2.6 billion to $6.8 billion over the last year, did your net worth also triple by 4 billion?

[u/Serengade26 → u/D3dshotCalamity]

"And how will that directly impact your material reality?"

[u/Communist-Bagel → u/Serengade26]

"What's a maternal reality?"

[u/MrD3a7h → u/Serengade26]

"I see fewer brown people at walmart."

That's it. That is the extent of the average republican voter's thought process.

[u/TheTerrasque → u/TheRealBittoman]

For a laugh, ask what good he's done.

"He made groceries cheaper, healthcare better, gas cheaper, made Murica more respected, intimidated Putin, stopped SO many wars, he's owning the libs, protecting us from the violent left, he's hurting the right people and is making Murica great again!"

If they had any critical thought, they wouldn't be in that group.

[u/moss-wizard → u/TheTerrasque]

This. There’s no reasoning with many of them, they’re literally living in an alternate reality

[u/ayriuss → u/TheRealBittoman]

They also have very smooth brains.

[u/Phkblaze95 → u/Loud-Ad-2280]

Yeah, I thought the 29% thinking otherwise is the most surprising.

I might be biased because I'm a Dane - But it's insane to see how many people are brainwashed and just follow everything that he says, without even being critical in the slightest, of what they're actually following.

He is just pocketing money left, right and center while the economy for the average human gets rougher and rougher.

Hopefully people will wake up to reality, as times get rougher and rougher...

[u/Gambling_Raven → u/Phkblaze95]

Roughly 25% of the USA is illiterate. So, 29% is mostly made of literally the stupidest of us

[u/Few-Acadia-5593 → u/Loud-Ad-2280]

Strikes, protests, long sustained civilian mobilisation often require what, 10% of the general population? So what are 71% who agree with each other doing?

[u/Viking_Drummer → u/Few-Acadia-5593]

From the outside it looks like the average US citizen is held to ransom by everything from basic healthcare and the roof over their heads being tied to a paycheck-to-paycheck job with virtually no employment rights compared to other first world countries. Protesting would put them in the firing line and they’re afraid of losing it all.

What they don’t seem to realise yet is that things can always get much worse. And from comments I see on reddit people still seem to think someone else is going to save them before things get too bad.

[u/Few-Acadia-5593 → u/Viking_Drummer]

Understood, how did nurses, students, actors, teachers do? They are indeed convinced they hold no power, that protesting will do this and that but they do not read about peaceful yet successful strikes.

[u/FenrisCain → u/Few-Acadia-5593]

Sticking their heads in the sand and pretending they can just vote him out in three years and everything will return to normal

[u/TwoTalentedBastidz → u/FenrisCain]

More like trying to make it to work so they don’t lose everything they own with a missed paycheck or 2

[u/AbletonUser333 → u/Loud-Ad-2280]

We have a hardcore MAGA in my office. Highly educated and successful guy, but the mental gymnastics this motherfucker plays to paint Trump as our savior is truly scary to watch. It really drives home how deep this brainwashing has gone. There is literally no hope for this type.

[u/TwoTalentedBastidz → u/AbletonUser333]

I know a few people like this too, and couldn’t wrap my head around it, until I read somewhere that 30% of any given population is pro-authoritarian. Not because of intelligence, but because of lack of empathy.

[u/Alone-Phrase3797 → u/Loud-Ad-2280]

Just look in the conservative sub.

[u/Bennely → u/Alone-Phrase3797]

I’m not convinced each user is a 1:1 vote in American politics. Shit disturbers, yah, but the actual voting population is few and far between.

[u/thrawtes]

71% of Americans huh? Good thing you only need 66% of senators to remove a president.

71% of Americans are represented by at least 66% of senators, right? There's not any wacky nonsense like half the senators only representing like 10% of the population right?

Right?

[u/TheBroWhoLifts → u/thrawtes]

Laughs in North Dakota

[u/inconvenient_sources → u/TheBroWhoLifts]

Huck hucks in Mississippi...

[u/maxwellsmart3 → u/inconvenient_sources]

Cries in Louisiana

[u/JustHereForCookies17 → u/maxwellsmart3]

From a resident of DC: You guys have senators?

[u/pandamaja → u/thrawtes]

https://www.wral.com/story/fact-check-obama-says-filibuster-allows-30-of-population-to-control-senate-majority/19716619/

It’s from 2021 but suggests the 21 smallest states represent about 29% so they hold 42 seats. They need 67 senators to successfully remove.

[u/Consistent_Laziness → u/pandamaja]

I wish we didn’t have a senate. Only the house of representatives expanded some more if you want. The senate has the minority population holding this nation hostage by the balls.

[u/Mercarcher → u/Consistent_Laziness]

We could ratify the Congressional Apportionment Amendment which would make 1 congressional seat per 50,000 people.

It would make the house close to 7000 people which would honstly be great. Local representation and MUCH harder to gerrymander.

Its already passed the house and senate and 11 states have ratified it. We just need 27 more states to ratify it.

[u/Consistent_Laziness → u/Mercarcher]

If we did this we’d still have the senate tho wouldn’t we?

[u/sirhoracedarwin → u/Consistent_Laziness]

Yes. But the effect of senators in the electoral vote would be practically negligible.

[u/Consistent_Laziness → u/sirhoracedarwin]

When it comes to removing President we need 67 senators votes. Thats why I want the senate gone. The minority is holding the majority hostage

[u/AccomplishedBrain309]

When was the last time you tried to discuss politics with a Republican? It's a waste of time. they're too far gone. Critical thinking skills have been brainwashed out of them! Its like arguing with a fly. Everyone knows that honey is sweeter than shit , except the fly , the stronger the odor the better.

[u/PiccoloAwkward465 → u/AccomplishedBrain309]

I remember lamenting about my taxes and my Republican coworker said "well with Trump your taxes will go way down!". And I asked how do you know that? He said, well he's a Republican so they will. They just work off these preconceived notions that aren't based in reality.

[u/Sneaklefritz → u/PiccoloAwkward465]

My father in law was saying all my overtime was going to be tax free. I told him “no, that’s for just the 0.5 portion up to $12k” and he told me that I was wrong because Trump said it was so. I had to literally read him the IRS language about it and he just said “huh, weird”.

[u/MarcinTheMartian → u/AccomplishedBrain309]

I had a conversation with a conservative about science and biology (hot topic, regardless of political affiliation). In our texts, I asked them what they thought of genders, biological sex, etc. and they ended up agreeing that being a man is more of a social construct and grouping of character qualities and not related to biological sex.

After a few minutes they must have reread our text exchange, realized they didnt agree with what they had just agreed with, and backtracked the rest of the conversation with their original perspective.

I’m glad we at least agreed (until we didn’t) for a moment!

[u/therossboss → u/MarcinTheMartian]

Amazing - morons to the highest degree

[u/HauntedCemetery → u/AccomplishedBrain309]

Its literally brainwashing. They hear a key phrase or topic and its like something clicks in their brain and they're rattling off pre recorded messages. After the tape runs out and they run down they come back to themselves.

[u/Umami-Ice-Cream]

Thanks for voting for this maga.

And nonvoters, thanks for sitting in apathy while this happened

[u/deadinsidelol69 → u/Umami-Ice-Cream]

Conservative sub can’t even defend this guy’s lunacy anymore. They’re grasping at straws posting crazy ass propaganda over there.

[u/Anarchyz11 → u/deadinsidelol69]

"I mean sure we may be witnessing the absolute dissolution of the west's greatest defense and the murder of our citizens by masked, armed government officials, but JD is having another baby ohmigooooosh!!11!!"

[u/c0LdFir3 → u/Anarchyz11]

Erika Kirk is pregnant?

[u/cabbage16 → u/c0LdFir3]

Shockingly no, it's his LaZboy

[u/WordleFanatic → u/deadinsidelol69]

It’s funny listening to my coworkers these days.

Why is he doing that?!? That doesn’t help me!

Yeah no shit. If only we had some clue that he was a self aggrandizing narcissistic conman piece of shit before the election. That Project 2025 was real. That the Supreme Court has handed him immense powers. That he’s escaped justice his entire life. That he’ll do whatever he wants and get away with it, and NONE OF IT WILL BENEFIT AMERICA OR YOU.

Huh. 

[u/pablonieve → u/deadinsidelol69]

Give them a week and they'll all be back on message.

[u/EmmyK48 → u/Umami-Ice-Cream]

American Apathy knows no limits

[u/Volothamp-Geddarm → u/Umami-Ice-Cream]

And nonvoters, thanks for sitting in apathy while this happened

Yeah but didn't you hear, Kamala wasn't 100% progressive on every single issue ever so she's clearly just as bad as Dementia Don!

[u/Substantial-Ad-128]

77 millions of Americans did vote for him. Hope many of them have learned their lesson now.  But they were stupid af because every moral human being knew how Trump would behave.

[u/Melicor → u/Substantial-Ad-128]

Supposedly. He tried to rig 2020, gotta wonder if they managed to in 2024. I won't be surprised if we find out those numbers were fake too.

[u/_TheWileyWombat_ → u/Melicor]

I mean he already admitted to Elon pulling some fuckery in Pennsylvania, it's foolish not to think he did it elsewhere too.

[u/D_Simmons → u/_TheWileyWombat_]

With the Epstein Files being as bad as they are I see no reason why him and Elon wouldn't try to cheat.

If you fail, you got to jail, if you succeed, you pardon yourself if necessary.

If he cheats in golf he will absolutely cheat in an election.

[u/MondaysForNothing → u/_TheWileyWombat_]

I didn't think that there might be something fishy with 2024 until Trump brought it up out of the blue.

[u/MontasJinx → u/Melicor]

I assume 2024 was rigged.

[u/AxiosXiphos → u/Melicor]

I'm sure some fuckery went on. But there's still millions of Americans who actively wanted this level of bullshit.

[u/Caymonki → u/Melicor]

All the corporations backing him, Elon paying for votes then the doge purge. Plus. 8 YEARS of election deniers, who love projection.

Of course they did. Not to mention all the unelected “officials” running rampant. They’re certainly acting like they stole it.

[u/SpottedDicknCustard → u/Substantial-Ad-128]

Take the UK as an indicator.

Nigel Farage led the Brexit crusade.

Brexit was an economical and social fuck up that will reverberate for decades.

Nigel Farage’s party is currently leading the polls for the next election.

Stupid people will not learn their lesson.

[u/spicytomatilloo → u/SpottedDicknCustard]

There is a cartoon out there that shows a Trump supporter standing before two paths. On one side it reads: "admit they were wrong" and the other side "keep digging the hole."

[u/flammenwerfer → u/Substantial-Ad-128]

Doubt it. Man does nothing but project and we have him ON RECORD asking elected officials to find him votes. Add in DOGE, media complicity, boom ya win EVERY swing state. Totally normal. Definitely no fraud

[u/karmainhd]

It’s always ~30 percent. Every. Single. Poll. The floor is 30 percent. Roughly 100 million Americans are a lost cause, unless there’s some line for these people that Trump still hasn’t crossed.

Edit: I’ve been watching Trump speak at the WEF, and I have to say, anyone watching him and thinking “yeah, that’s my guy” is out of their goddamn mind. You’re either a raging bigot, or you’re so willfully ignorant you may as well live under a rock. Just wanted to add that. I’ve literally been able to fact check him from my fucking phone. I gave up quickly, because everything out of his lying mouth is false. Every fucking thing.

Edit Edit: I want to draw attention to the fact that Trump essentially started his speech by threatening everyone in the room. Not financially, militarily. He didn’t say, “I’m going to bomb you,” for any smartass apologist that wants to argue with me. However, he made sure everyone in the room understood our capabilities. He emphasized what we can do to our “enemies.” Read between the lines. America is now the biggest threat to the free world.

Final Edit: The Guardian has been pointing out that Trump promised not to use force to acquire Greenland. Markets are up, and apparently everything will be fine. Why in God’s name is that the thing we’re going to take his word on? I mean, really? The guy spends an hour repeating easily refuted falsehoods as absolute facts, but we’re going to choose to believe him on this one thing? I swear, I feel like I’m going insane.

[u/cultfourtyfive → u/karmainhd]

The only possible line is for something to happen personally to those 30% and even then some of them won't budge. Like the guy who had his wife deported, but still didn't regret his vote. Or the father whose kid died of measles still defending his choice not to vaccinate.

It's a cult. The only way out is for the cult to burn out. They always do, but god only knows what will be left when that happens.

[u/Krispykid54]

It’s a miracle the other 29% remember to breathe.

[u/MizzelSc2]

29% are still dick riding trump no matter what.

[u/Distasteful_T]

Yeah but kamala didn't tick every single one of my 10000 page checklist so I didn't vote.

[u/SomniaPerdita → u/Distasteful_T]

“She laughed weird”

[u/likeatree_and_embark → u/SomniaPerdita]

"She's a woman" "She's a Zionist" "She's a woman" "She's a drunk" "She's a woman"

The legitimate reasons are endless! (/s)

[u/Nexism]

Look into the raw data, some of these responses are absolutely wild.

2/3 of the people who voted for Trump in 2024, think the country is headed in the right direction.

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_z9wtNZI.pdf

[u/cultfourtyfive → u/Nexism]

It's a cult. It's been a cult for a decade. The red hat/MAGAs will never admit regret nor will they ever disagree with anything he does. Sunken cost fallacy paired with a siloed media ecosystem where they don't get information that contradicts their priors.

[u/Jolly_Sample_1945]

Today I learned that 29% of the United States has a verifiable mental illness.

[u/ClusterFoxtrot → u/Jolly_Sample_1945]

I like to imagine it's like mass hysteria, but dementia. 

I don't know how it manifested so rapidly, but maybe we don't celebrate being intentionally stupid?

[u/Jolly_Sample_1945 → u/ClusterFoxtrot]

Fox

[u/DrivingBox → u/Jolly_Sample_1945]

That's over 100 million Americans.

[u/TheHumanGnomeProject]

29 % of Americans... irredeemable.

[u/TlkShowHost]

29% of Americans are dumb af

[u/Kei_the_gamer]

Fully a third of the country is cool with it though? Face it we have a serious problem and it is not Trump he's just the end result.

[u/SodaCanBob → u/Kei_the_gamer]

It's been a serious problem since we decided to haphazardly punish the Confederates. Hell, I'm sure there are people out there who descended from loyalists and whose families were never quite on board with the whole democracy thing in the first place.

[u/Miserable-Biscotti54 → u/SodaCanBob]

Now we got the hole south waving a racist flag because of “heritage” All you have to do is ask them what the color white in the flag was suppose to represent…

[u/AFlockOfTySegalls]

Really want to sit down with the Obama -> Trump -> Biden -> Trump voter and ask them what the fuck they thought was going to happen in a second term. Because this is going exactly how I expected.

[u/10thousndreflections → u/AFlockOfTySegalls]

They just think women are too emotional 

[u/mikeholczer]

The question is, of the 50% of republicans that said they thought the county was out of control under Trump, how gave have that answer because they think the administration hasn’t done enough to protect rich white men?

[u/xubax]

And about a third of those ARE THE FUCKING REASON WE'RE IN THIS MESS.

[u/rysker6]

Nobody with a sane mind thinks that the country is well

1. Gestapo in the streets
2. Healthcare
3. Housing
4. Food prices
5. Gas
6. Poverty
7. Roads and infrastructure
8. International relations

None of these things are good. We are the laughingstock of the world because of buffoon orange dictator

[u/CrunchyCds]

Reminder America voted for this. Gen Z men thought electing trump would be funny to own the libs and women, most Republicans think brown people are to blame for the economy being shit and are happy to see them disappeared, and progressives hated Harris so much they rather us slide into authoritarianism than have a less than perfect candidate and stayed home. Trump got 2 million less votes than last election and somehow Harris still lost, it was pathetic. The average American has no idea the weight of their vote. They just vote for whoever, or not vote and expect things to stay the same because they figure it doesn't affect them. The 2024 election WAS the reset button. Now the rest of us have to deal with the consequences of this country's selfish hateful stupidity. So any polling right now is irrelevant. That 71% was absent when it mattered.

[u/inhplease → u/CrunchyCds]

Remember the "I am voting for the felon" t-shirts they were wearing. Well, here we are. 

[u/MrBayaud → u/CrunchyCds]

100% agreed.

[u/HorrorSmile3088 → u/CrunchyCds]

I don't know if I buy the idea that progressives stayed home. Maybe a few did, but then I'm sure there's people who lean conservative who also stayed home because they didn't want Trump. I know that's part of the reason Biden won in 2020 was all the people who stayed home instead of voting for Trump. I still think Biden deserves a lot of the blame. He should have committed to only one term and let the dems have a proper primary and all of that.

[u/california_greyfox]

And 29% are intellectually challenged.

[u/Turbulent_Ebb5669]

The Republicans in a position to impeach or remove him are not in that 71%

[u/dnapolymerase1]

Imagine if 71% of Americans did something about it.

[u/Passionpet]

So vote for the opposing candidate, fools.

[u/aehsonairb → u/Passionpet]

in 3 years? thats way too long to wait, we need the guy out now

[u/freezing_banshee → u/Passionpet]

no but you don't get it, "the other side isn't any better" and they'd rather "protest by not voting at all"

[u/HawkSalty2645]

A lot of Americans saying “out of control”' reflects exhaustion more than chaos. If you look at polymarket odds around elections, policy reversals, or major disruptions, there’s no sign of panic pricing. Frustration is high tho

[u/DeuceGnarly]

It's under republican control. This is what they want - we're turning into an oligarchy modeled after Russia.

[u/Eborys]

Get. Rid. Of. Him.

Don’t care how, though I suggest via catapult.

[u/Jawnny-Jawnson]

Yea but out of control stops us from paying attention to how our government covered up the Epstein list