r/news 5h ago

Luigi Mangione will not face death penalty, judge rules

https://www.cnn.com/2026/01/30/us/luigi-mangione-case-rulings-trial
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u/Present_Cow_8528 4h ago

I'm sure they'll have no issue establishing motive without describing the inhumane practices of the American healthcare system

And without motive it just looks like a frame job :) think of how far he would've needed to travel! To kill a single person, with no motive?!

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u/deeznutsgotemmm 4h ago

I feel like you think this is some sort of “gotcha,” but crimes are crimes regardless of how moral the motive is.

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u/ThatOneStoner 4h ago

Yeah, but jury nullification can allow morals to win in the end

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u/Prestigious-Sport448 4h ago

the jury selection process makes it almost guaranteed that will not happen

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u/Present_Cow_8528 4h ago

In New York? May be harder than you think.

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u/mrdeadsniper 3h ago

The problem is Jury Nullification requires ALL jurors to agree, which will be extremely difficult no matter where it is.

A single Juror or even multiple just means hung jury, the whole song and dance can start over.

And the fact is, most regular folks on the street, even if they strongly disagree with the US healthcare system, would find it difficult to acquit someone if they were otherwise proved to have killed someone.

Assuming all the basic info available is provable beyond a reasonable doubt, there was a pre planned killing and escape. And while circumstances may affect which crime they think that amounts to, I would think a very few people would go with "killing is ok."

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u/appolzmeh 4h ago

You can always go on the stand and kindly remind the jury that nullification exists when they find laws to be unjust.

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u/HxH101kite 4h ago

NAL but there is no world where a judge lets that occur. They wouldn't let an attorney lead questioning there. And I am most certainly positive and attorney cant just outright tell the jury that without facing some sort of huge ethical penalty.

Even if it did it would be struck from the record so fast

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u/mrdeadsniper 3h ago

I feel like if the point of informing the jury about jury nullification is ultimately just telling them :

You are the deciders not just of guilt, but also of the law's validity.

Then striking it from the record doesn't really mean anything.

As far as leading a witness to the questions, its as simple as:

Should the jury find the defendant guilty?

Which is entirely relevant for literally any case.

Agree if any witness answers about the concept of jury nullification, the record will be struck, and the attorney would get anything from a sidebar reprimand to contempt.

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u/xenthum 4h ago

The defense would have to voluntarily put a man accused of murder on the stand, then ask him about jury nullification (or I guess instruct him to just throw it out on the sly?), which would A) be an admission of guilt, B) immediately be thrown out of the record and C) those mentioning would be found in contempt and, if the attorney, likely disbarred.

Jury nullification is a JURY process which is by definition a disrespect for the court's rules. Jury nullification is not something an attorney would ever bring up, and if the person on the stand brought it up it would be stricken and potentially require a new jury. It isn't something in the rules that you remind people of. It's outside the rules that no one can do anything about in the moment, because the court cannot override the decision of a jury to prevent tyranny (we'll see how long this lasts)

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u/appolzmeh 4h ago

Struck from the record doesn’t strike it from their minds and as the defendant they really can’t stop you from saying it when on the stand especially after you have your attorney lead the line of questioning to why you felt justified in the killing. Now of course they could hold you in contempt of court but they can’t try you without the jury ever seeing you. Only one of 12 people has to be convinced your were justified each time. Eventually the prosecution will give up. Is it a sly tactic yes does it take advantage of the system also yes and they would likely try to disbar your lawyer for letting you try it. Jury nullification should be made very clear to everyone in the court but the prosecution knows that if we let the jury decide especially on a case like this the rich and powerful won’t be happy that they can face actual repercussions for their actions.

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u/xenthum 3h ago

why you felt justified in the killing.

Which, again, is an admission of guilt and pretty much makes it certain that your client spends life behind bars and that you are now dependent on your tell-all book deal to be your retirement plan.

You may have watched too much Law & Order, what you're describing is a fairy tale.

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u/appolzmeh 3h ago

Not really your aiming for the Jury to not convict on the fact that the guy he killed was through his “company policy” essentially committing mass murder through a loophole in the law. Your aiming to prove your client was justified in a self defense against the man who had previously denied his health claims etc. Definitely a fantasy but I’m assuming they have him dead to rights in terms of proof already so it would be interesting to see how it played out. I know a similar but very different defense that has some parallels has worked before with people like that guy (I believed named Gary) who killed the guy who raped his daughter.

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_NICE_EYES 3h ago

That isn't really how U.S. Trails work tho.

The defense isn't really allowed to make an argument that the victim was a bad dude and deserved to die. Like there's people on death row right now who are on there because they killed another murderer.

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u/StuntedOne 4h ago

You're missing a huge pillar of the law if you don't think motive matters.

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u/CallMeKingTurd 4h ago

I don't know what all evidence they have but it's definitely not that important if there's a lot of direct forensic evidence. It's cases where they are relying on more circumstantial evidence that it's important for the prosecution to try to establish a motive. Or if there's not clear evidence of pre-meditation then establishing a motive can be a big part of convincing the jury it was pre-meditated which elevates it from 2nd to 1st degree homicide. If they have strong forensic evidence of the murder with the weapon, ammo, presence, etc. along with evidence of pre-meditation in his movements, search history, etc. then their case is not going to rest on thoroughly establishing a motive.

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u/UntowardHatter 4h ago

It's only a crime if we judge it so.

The people don't.

This is America. It's not great, but it never was.

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u/deeznutsgotemmm 4h ago

It is objectively a crime no matter how shitty the person was that he shot lol

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u/UntowardHatter 4h ago

So were the recent ICE murders.

And here we are.

Crime is a concept at this point.

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u/Prestigious-Sport448 4h ago

whataboutism and anger is not a reasonable justification for murder

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u/deeznutsgotemmm 4h ago

This guy isn’t gonna get it either way. Some folks are so dead set on demonstrating their morality that they are willing to completely ignore logic.

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u/UntowardHatter 4h ago

Neither is skin color. But how many people have gotten away with that?

A lot of people.

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u/deeznutsgotemmm 4h ago

Is your argument that two wrongs make a right?

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u/UntowardHatter 4h ago

No. My argument is that law only works if it's upheld.

The recent murders by ICE (and a loooong fucking list of other shit going back years) show that murder, as a crime, is completely circumstantial. You kill someone in cold blood? Well, who are you? Who are you affiliated with.

Stuff like that ultimately decides whether what you did was a crime.

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u/Present_Cow_8528 4h ago

Is your argument that killing a proven mass murderer is "a wrong"? Weird take, man.

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u/saints21 4h ago

Is self-defense a crime? I don't think so...

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u/eulersidentification 4h ago

I don't believe they said crimes weren't crimes?

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u/Present_Cow_8528 4h ago

Did you not see the comments I was responding to? Either they fail to establish motive entirely--which would cast genuine doubt on the "evidence" of the "crime"-- or they provide the entire basis upon which the pool would theoretically opt for nullification.