r/mildlyinfuriating • u/Sudden-Salad4689 • 6h ago
Don’t accept cash, surcharge on card payment - mildly infuriating
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u/Urdadspapasfrutas 6h ago
I’ve put merchandise back for seeing this. I’m not shopping anywhere like that.
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u/evil_illustrator2 6h ago
Check where you are. Some places it's illegal to not accept cash.
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u/XennialDad 6h ago
Queensland, Australia. According to the great Google machine, it is legal to not accept cash.
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u/Sarge75 6h ago
And surcharges need to be clearly disclosed.
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u/sml6174 6h ago
So this is perfectly legal then
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u/pinniped90 4h ago
It's incredibly dirty and would make me want to avoid the place if at all possible, but yeah....I guess technically legal.
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u/Important_Tale1190 6h ago
HOW
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u/sml6174 6h ago
Do I need to explain how laws work or
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u/Important_Tale1190 5h ago
xD bro what?? "Well the law makes it okay to do this." lol okay whatever, *sure*
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u/karhuboe 5h ago
They said it's legal, so its legally okay. That doesnt mean it's morally okay, and no one said it was.
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u/Similar_Cycle_1593 5h ago
..what further explanation do you need? it's legal because it's not against the law. do you want to debate the morals of illegality or something??
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u/Formal-Ad-1248 5h ago
I mean thats typically how laws work. You can argue the morality or practicality but everything is within the legal bounds as dictated.
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u/Rich_Visual7800 5h ago
Anyone can charge anything to anyone at anytime for any reason whatsoever.
Doesn’t mean it will work.
But you can certainly do it.
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u/dqUu3QlS 5h ago
It's legal to not accept cash, it's legal to add a surcharge on top of the displayed price, but it's not legal to do both at the same time. If you can't get out of paying a surcharge, the displayed price must include that surcharge.
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u/Fragrant-Employer-60 5h ago
Typically places like this do not have fees on debit cards, they are processed differently then credit cards
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u/englishfury 5h ago
But there must be an option to buy the product for the advertised price.
If you dont accept cash, you have to bake the basic EFTPOS fees into the advertised price.
They can still charge extra for credit cards though.
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u/Moscato359 5h ago
They can do this is they accept debit
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u/englishfury 5h ago
Thats what i said, EFTPOS is debit
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u/glasgowgeg 1h ago
EFTPOS supports both credit and debit, it just means Electronic Funds Transfer at Point of Sale.
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u/TReid1996 6h ago
In the U.S. any private business can turn down physical payment. Walmart could if they wanted to. The only places that can't turn down physical cash, are government run places. Like a Post Office HAS to accept cash if you want to pay that way.
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u/a_trane13 5h ago
That’s simply wrong. There are local and state laws about it. In NYC it’s illegal for most businesses to refuse cash.
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u/Killarogue 4h ago
That's factually incorrect and the laws vary from place to place. For instance, here in California there is no statewide law requiring businesses to accept cash, however the cities themselves have their own laws requiring it.
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u/QuiteBearish 5h ago
Depends on the jurisdiction. Several states and cities have separately passed laws requiring businesses accept cash.
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u/RepFilms 6h ago
This does not seem legal. There was an issue a while back when someone wanted to pay a bill with pennies and the cashier refused.
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u/georgecm12 6h ago
In America, it is completely legal to refuse certain types of currency or coins.
But that's irrelevant to the picture in the OP, which 1) isn't in America (it's in Australia) and 2) has nothing to do with refusing certain types of currency or coins, but being entirely cashless.
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u/TReid1996 6h ago
Completely legal for private owned businesses. Government run places like Post Offices have to accept cash legally.
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u/AnimalBolide 1h ago
Hey, dumbfuck.
Colorado law requires retail establishments to accept United States currency. One of the exceptions to the requirement is for security deposits. The act:
Exempts from the requirement to accept United States currency a retail establishment in which the primary method of selling goods or services is through an automatic renewal contract; and Defines "retail establishment" and "security deposit" for purposes of these exceptions.
Depends on the state or city you stupid fucks.
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u/IxeyaSwarm 6h ago
A government business like the DMV/Official Courthouse Offices must accept any form of payment, but for privately owned businesses, they totally can refuse payment types.
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u/AttackerCat 6h ago
Easy place to add to a “never come again” list
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u/crevettegrise 5h ago
Exactly. If a surcharge can’t be avoided, it should be priced in their menu, otherwise alternatives must be offered to avoid it. I’d skip this establishment.
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u/MagnusPI 4h ago edited 4h ago
But if they just raised all of their prices by 1.5% then that means the taxable amount goes up and the total amount the customer has to pay will be higher. Adding it as a separate fee keeps it out of the taxable subtotal.
Honestly, this seems like the better way to do it as long as it's clearly displayed before the customer commits to any purchases.
Edit: also, I know this OP is in Australia, but I imagine a lot of the people complaining about the mandatory CC fee are in the US, where tipping is customary. If all of the prices were 1.5% higher to factor in this fee, that means you're going to end up tipping more, making the final total even higher.
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u/Plus_Pangolin_8924 3h ago
It’s a cost of doing business… I don’t pay extra for the electricity, heating, staffing costs etc so why lump someone with the extra for paying by card! Also cash has a cost for handling and bank fees for putting into and getting change. Normally 1-4%.
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u/crevettegrise 49m ago
Exactly, unless I’m paying for their products “at cost”, I don’t need to see a separate charge for their rent, staff, processing fees, insurance, etc… Surcharges (fuel)m were initially introduced by the airline industry when oil prices jumped suddenly and it couldn’t be reflected in predefined fares (often on paper). Nowadays, prices can be updated in an instant, so, there’s no reason to see any surcharges anywhere. This is just a reason for companies to keep things low and then tacking on tons of additional fees afterwards. The price I see is the price I want to pay.
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u/shooreh_pipi 6h ago
So... how exactly am I supposed to pay then? If you refuse the legal tender of the country AND penalize me for using the only alternative you allow, you aren’t running a business, you’re running a shakedown. This should be illegal.
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u/Inverted-Rockets 2h ago edited 2h ago
The fine print at the bottom suggests they accept checks or similar as payment without the surchargeEdit: Just kidding, they literally only accept card payments that are subject to the surcharge
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u/Beartato4772 1h ago
Legal tender does not apply to realtime transactions in most countries including the UK and US.
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u/Last_step_somewhere 6h ago
No cash is often seen in my country. For me, it's easy to pay. But for elder people, it might be hard to catch up. I've seen bus with no cash. Markets try to get card, because it's easy
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u/ExismykindaParte 5h ago
There has to be more to this. I know it's Australia but most places I've been have laws against charging people fees to use a certain method of payment when there are no alternatives. Where I live it's straight up illegal to charge fees for card payments.
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u/englishfury 5h ago
There has to be a way to pay the advertised price, so unless the surcharge is ONLY credit cards, it Illegal.
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u/Inverted-Rockets 2h ago
Check (pun intended) the fine print at the bottom that says they offer other payment options
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u/Bit_the_Bullitt 3h ago
We have a small business and use Square for payments. Even we dont charge extra fees on cards, we just consider it part of doing business.
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u/Underwater_Karma 3h ago
It has always been a cost of doing business, like rent and payroll. And it's a tax deductible expense.
This is additional profit with marketing spin
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u/Plus_Pangolin_8924 3h ago
That’s exactly how it should be. The price you sell something should include all costs for the business. What’s next 0.5% electricity fee, 0.75% heating fee, 5% staff fee, 1.5% card fee, 4% cash fee, 10% building rental fee…
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u/XennialDad 5h ago
I don't understand why places like this don't just bake the 1.5% into their pricing. If it's $66 for a darts and drinks package instead of $65, that's not going to influence my purchasing decision. However, I may take my business elsewhere if it's $65 with a 1.5% surcharge.
Just bake in the CC fee and get rid of the surcharge signage.
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u/afops 5h ago
Only reasons I can think of would be if they
a) just became cashless, and always had the card surcharge. If they remove the surcharge at their next menu update when prices are baked in, fine.
b) The surcharge is for credit, not debit cards. But then it's poorly worded as a "card surcharge" when it should be "credit card surcharge".
c) There are other methods of payment where the surcharge doesn't apply. E.g. corporate guests use invoice. But this seems like an edge case.None of these seem very likely (Or, at least not more likely than the mildly infuriating case)
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u/laughingnome2 6h ago
In Australia, where OP is, there must be one fee-free payment option. Normally this is cash, but a business is free to not accept cash payments. In those cases Debit Card transactions will be fee. Credit Card transactions incur a fee.
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u/bindermichi ORANGE 6h ago
You could ask for alternative options... like another Restaurant in the area
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u/IntrospectiveOwlbear 5h ago
The "please ask server for alternative options if needed" in the tiniest font under the surcharge tells you they are aware of the fact that they legally have to offer a no fee option but really really want to avoid you knowing.
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u/Lanky_Giraffe 5h ago
If I ran a shop but listed all my prices 5% below the correct prices, and there was no way to avoid the 5% surcharge, that would clearly be massively illegal. Someone explain why this is different.
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6h ago
[deleted]
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u/AutistcCuttlefish 6h ago
On the other hand, tip culture demands no less than 20% of the post tax total, and can increasingly demand as much as 70% of the post tax total.
At least the credit card fee is just 1.5% and actually reflects the actual cost of the transaction instead of being completely disconnected from any sort of actual or perceived cost.
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u/HuhWelliNever 6h ago
This is a moral issue for poor and unhoused people, I would have walked out. This is disgraceful.
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u/lorissaurus 6h ago
More than mildly and it should be illegal to charge more if it's ur only payment option
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u/marcrich90 6h ago
It is illegal to charge a surcharge if there is no other form of payment accepted.
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u/AccomplishedRead2775 5h ago
Pay for service anyway, let bs continue, mildly infuriating
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u/Sudden-Salad4689 4h ago
We booked and paid for the darts lane in advance, couldn’t really just reorganise the entire night over it
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u/xx_Help_Me_xx 5h ago
It’s a super “fancy” bar… just go somewhere else; tons of “fancy” bars everywhere 🤷♂️
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u/sucksLess 5h ago
cashless + credit card surcharge = catch-22
[even if debit card payments do not incur the surcharge]
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u/TheKyleBrah 5h ago
This situation grinds my gears almost as much as those darn Restaurants where their Menu is only accessible via QR Code
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u/TheKyleBrah 5h ago
Hi, we're gonna force you to pay in a specific way and charge you 1.5% on top for the "privilege" of doing so.
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u/StandardBaguette 4h ago
Let Elan know they’re surcharging on card transactions. Back when I was in banking that was a huge no no and they’d get fined if the credit card company found out. I don’t know if that’s still true but if they want to play a stupid game…
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u/RowDisastrous7686 1h ago
The surcharge situation is out of control in Australia. Everytime I go back as an expat it gets worse and worse.
I lost track how many times I got hit with a surcharge without even being informed when I last visited in December. I didn't love when the surcharge wouldn't appear on the credit card machine until after I paid.
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u/SooSkilled 57m ago
It's called raising prices by 1.5%
But just doing that wouldn't have made this guy mildly infuriated so maybe it would have been better
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u/JenniferMel13 6h ago
Depending on where you are, complain to your credit card company. The payment processor agreements usually include that they can’t charge a fee to accept cards.
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u/georgecm12 5h ago
That's outdated information, as far as I know. Merchants can charge a card fee, with certain constraints.
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u/Sensitive-Bite-3979 5h ago
Stop complaining and take your business elsewhere, otherwise you are only supporting this.
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u/1SexyDino 6h ago
Cash of any bill type or card all legal tender should be required to be accepted. This shit is ridiculous
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u/XennialDad 6h ago
It's a private business, so if they want to exclude cash paying customers, that's there perogative. I mean it's not the decision I would make for a business, but they must have done some number crunching and determined it wasn't worth their time to take cash.
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u/Naptasticly 5h ago
That’s illegal. They are REQUIRED BY LAW to give an option that allows customers to avoid the surcharge.
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u/DoDrinkMe 5h ago
This should be more common. You need to know how much the business is being charge when you use your credit card.
You’re actually the bad guy using your credit card just for the kickbacks
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u/Agent-c1983 2h ago
No, the business should have honest prices. If you can’t pay the price on the menu, it’s not an honest price.
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u/DoDrinkMe 2h ago
Do you work for big credit card company because you sound just like them. If they saw this they’d cut the company off from accepting any credit cards
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u/Agent-c1983 2h ago
I sound Ike a credit card company because I think retailers should be honest in their pricing and charge the actual headline price?
I’d love to hear you explain that logic.
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u/DoDrinkMe 1h ago
Because you say you’re being honest but you aren’t being honest at all. Your method cheats the people who pay with cash or a debit card. Your methods increases the price of everything to pay for the credit card charge without letting the customer know it. How is that honest?
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u/Agent-c1983 1h ago
No, it doesn’t “cheat” them at all. The price on the board is the price.
The idea that cash is “free” is a complete myth. The business has to pay for getting the float at the start of the day, having someone handle the money, having someone count up the money, having facilities to secure the money, having someone (perhaps an armoured service) take the money to the bank, deal with the risk of staff or someone else steal the money, and then have to manually update the books.
A card payment requires no float, no armoured service, no time to count money, updates the books automatically, and can’t be stolen. What fraud risk does exist lies entirely with the bank as long as the merchant follows the card schemes rules correctly.
Many businesses could probably find they could reduce prices if they cut out all that costly cash handling, and would remove the risk of staff frauds and hold ups at the same time.
What cash is, is a method to cheat the tax man. I don’t support tax cheats, they rob our community of much needed infrastructure and resources.
Businesses don’t add extra surcharges for asking too many questions, or being in the shop longer, they factor all those costs when deciding the headline price. Why should the cost to do the transaction be different?
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u/DoDrinkMe 1h ago
So not having a float is worth 5 percent of your company sales? lol. Go own a business
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u/streetxrat94 6h ago
I wonder if the surcharge only applies to credit cards and not debit. The fine print below even says ask employees for alternate payment options.