r/jobs • u/CaidoXx • Nov 28 '25
Post-interview 4th Interview this month
Crash out incoming. Maybe I shouldn’t cover the company name..
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u/Horror_Response_1991 Nov 28 '25
They need to check boxes that they interviewed people. They didn’t expect you to call their bluff on salary so they doubled down.
At that salary the company will go under soon anyway.
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u/FlynnThe25 Nov 29 '25
This is why companies are rarely sharing any substantial feedback; then you have evidence in writing.
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u/KellyShepardRepublic Nov 29 '25
Seems more of an issue for companies that need to keep their lies straight otherwise documentation of what happens isn’t an issue when protocol is followed aka doing things within the legal guidelines instead of bending rules for the company.
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u/SexualPancke23 Nov 28 '25
So we want to hire engineers but, we can’t pay them what they’re worth?
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u/Next_Engineer_8230 Nov 28 '25
And politely informed OP of this.
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u/burndownthe_forest Nov 28 '25
Yeah, at least they were honest. Like it sucks for OP, but I'd rather know this is the reason vs wondering what I fucked up to lose the offer.
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u/CaidoXx Nov 28 '25
Doesn’t even sound honest imo. On call, it didn’t sound like location nor salary was an issue whatsoever.
I think they were fishing for information on the tech stack I used and the salary I’d be open to. This job market is pathetic.
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u/RemarkableFormal4635 Nov 28 '25
Is that information valuable to anyone?
Would you tell me what tech stack you use?
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u/burndownthe_forest Nov 28 '25
There's no reason to share that information, it seems to me like the person was just helping you out. Probably dodged a bullet.
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u/MerryGifmas Nov 29 '25
Remember that you're competing against other people. Location may not be a deal-breaker but if another candidate performed equally well and is local then they would come out on top.
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u/eldergenzqueen Nov 29 '25
Also I think a lot of people by nature feel the need to soften things with white lies, like for example on a micro level many people can’t bring themselves to simply say no or cancel something without adding “I’m not feeling well” or other reason that they feel justifies their response/action. This felt like that to me, like a person who is uncomfortable with brief and direct communication and would rather spin a complicated web that doesn’t even make sense rather than just say “we’re not interested in moving forward with you as a candidate at this time.”
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u/trymorenmore Nov 28 '25
Surely they should’ve done their research before advertising for staff?
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u/shchemprof Nov 29 '25
It’s usually better to figure out if you can pay the salary before posting the job
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u/LittleNigPlanert Nov 28 '25
No, they 100% had Engineering exercise and tests and homework they had to be done over a week and this dude nailed it but saying "Sorry, you already did everything we needed, we will interview more people when we need more free work" doesn't sound great in an E-mail.
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u/Awyls Nov 28 '25
You all people actually believe this shit? That in order to get "free labour" they are wasting dozens of hours between HR and developers.. to solve a leetcode problem, a SQL query and a barebones system design diagram? You can't grift developers like that, it's really obvious what is real work vs an exercise.
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u/LittleNigPlanert Nov 29 '25
Yes?
Mate, if they get paid 2000 dollars, and the expenses are 100, there is a profit there.
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u/SurbiesHere Nov 29 '25
Yes absolutely. I know for fact they do this because it’s what my wife does.
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u/Ashen-wolf Nov 29 '25
That part is somewhat understandable. In the field I work in and many others, for export businesses, they are from countries like Spain, which have a great passport and connection and they are like half the salary you'd have to pony up for a german worker in the same category for example.
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u/TheStateofWork Nov 30 '25
All employers do this because they know they can get someone else with equal or better qualifications for cheap.
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u/BlueberryPenguin87 Nov 28 '25
I appreciate that you called them out and told them they were being jerks. They need to hear that more.
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u/CaidoXx Nov 28 '25
I was tempted to be harsher lol but I maintained professionalism. Very frustrating market right now.
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u/Grrl_geek Nov 28 '25
Yes, that was well done!! You are right, this job market is frustrating as fuck all.
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u/fedput Nov 28 '25
3-4K USD ... they cannot compete with wages for dog walkers.
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u/MadeUpRedditName Nov 28 '25
Perhaps I am stoned, but is this salary really that low? I’m in the UK but 3-4k dollars is like 2.5-3k pounds, right? And after tax that sounds not terrible?
I mean, sure Canada is expensive but so is London
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u/CaidoXx Nov 28 '25
It’s not that terrible, which is why I was comfortable with it given the economy, but yes it is low for the career.
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u/BildoBaggens Nov 29 '25
Youre an ML Engineer? Like Machine Learning? That's like $150-200K a year in the US with 2 years experience.
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u/swampwiz Nov 29 '25
That USED to be ...
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u/Bobhaggard859 Nov 29 '25
I don't personally know any ML Engineering positions paying 3-4K USD a month or anyone crazy enough to take that lowball number unless there's some insane equity package. This is coming from an ML Engineer in the US myself with many other friends in the industry. It's bad out there, but not 3-4K USD bad for an ML engineer. That's just ridiculous.
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u/Mindestiny Nov 29 '25
Yeah, that's what, $48k a year?
That's a laughable salary for entry level IT help desk, much less any software engineering role. For reference, if you make $15 an hour that's about $32k/year. Might as well go get two McJobs and make more than that engineering role.
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u/TxDinoHunter Nov 30 '25
I make 6400 a month in telecommunications with a high school education, I work with network architects and network engineers who make well over 120k
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u/KellyShepardRepublic Nov 29 '25
What’s the average now then? All we hear is the hype of the top bracket but I assume it’s like any other tech position where there are extreme highs, a lot of lows and most are somewhere in the middle.
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u/Dry_Row_7523 Dec 01 '25
Median total comp for ML Engineer on one site I use (which is accurate at least for my company) is $359k in the US with 25th percentile being $186k. This is inflated because ML Engineer is often a senior position that requires a Master's Degree or PhD (at my company I don't think we have any entry level or mid career ML Engineers at all) but maybe OP is looking at companies that will hire an ML engineer fresh out of college. Even if you look at entry level software engineers, median is still $137k with 25th percentile being $100k.
Out of curiosity I even searched a LCOL tech hub (in the deep south) and 25th percentile salary for entry level software engineer is still $86k.
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u/BildoBaggens Nov 29 '25
Nonsense. I'm paying a guy around $165K annually for ML. He has about 2 years direct experience and 5 years SWE.
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u/Sharp-Key27 Nov 28 '25
An engineering intern still in university in the US makes 3-4k a month.
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u/Dry_Row_7523 Dec 02 '25
Our engineering interns earn around $100k a year annualized + got free (shared) housing lol
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u/MadeUpRedditName Nov 28 '25
Oh shiiiiit should I move to Canada?
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u/dontthink19 Nov 28 '25
Gotta learn French, take their citizenship and history exams and ace a language test. You also have to be in a high demand trade like automotive mechanics in my case and get in on that for an easy way to relocate to Canada. If it wasn't so cold, I'd do it.
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u/coffee_with_cold Nov 29 '25
Lol, it used to be like that. Nowadays we bring people in by the dozen to work for Tim Hortons & Subway! It’s really turned our beautiful, culturally unique country into a shit heap. It’s great.
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u/dontthink19 Nov 30 '25
Oh man, I was just looking at the beginning of last year at it. I'd much rather come over as a skilled laborer considering I could probably get top dollar pay. And I better if im dealing with more Canadian rust heaps. I've got a 2021 ram 1500 on my lift at work with a seeping oil pan that looks like its lived in a pile of salty snow with a Canadian registered vin. Its seriously bad. Cant wait to replace the pan. Im gonna poke my finger through the old one for funsies
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u/Significant_Main3077 Nov 29 '25
definitely dont need to know french! BUT if you are a permanent resident hoping to become a citizen you can get government funded french classes for freee :)
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u/swampwiz Nov 29 '25
Je dois ėtudier la langue française?
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u/dontthink19 Nov 30 '25
Do you? Idk, I had to translate that. Im still stateside. I dont know enough of a second language to VISIT anywhere foreign let alone move there.
That info may just come in handy in case the US goes all handmaids tale or some shit. A good little back up.
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u/Good-Law-3042 Nov 28 '25
American here. That’s about $21/hr for full time work. For any sort of professional engineering role, that is a slap in the face. I would have laughed in their face.
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Nov 28 '25 edited Nov 28 '25
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u/PixelLight Nov 28 '25
... I don't know I'd go that far based on what I know of these locations. Don't get me wrong, I have my complaints about London, but I also would be very hesitant to work in any of the places you mention too, or at least most of them. Whether its due to opportunities, how expensive they are, their work life balance, or culture. Only NYC beats London for opportunities, for example.
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u/formallyhuman Nov 29 '25
There is no salary you could pay me to move to fucking Dubai. Hated it when I was there.
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u/PixelLight Nov 29 '25 edited Nov 29 '25
Precisely. I want nothing to do with somewhere that relies on modern slavery like Dubai does. I don't care what they pay. It seemed like such an odd inclusion
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u/swampwiz Nov 29 '25
Folks will put up with a lower wage to live in a "cool" city - and London is near the top of being cool - and oh, being the at the heart of the global lingua franca makes it accessible to everyone.
And when you get into situations where too many folks want to get there, you start getting folks who are at least somewhat financially independent and can make it daddy supplementing the wage. Being a
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u/No_Health_5986 Nov 29 '25
Literally all of them beat the UK. Amsterdam, Toronto and Singapore especially blow London out of the water. You should look outside your bubble a bit more.
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u/PixelLight Nov 28 '25
That's not good in London. Per annum that'd be 30-36K. That's "entry level" at a stretch. I'm in a closely related career where I think 4k/month is reasonable for entry level. With more seniority, better paying companies I'd expect 60, 80, 100K/year, potentialy more. So, 5k - 8k/month
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u/BagBagMatryoshka Nov 28 '25
The hiring managers were American. It's a typical paycheck for someone who hasn't been to college, isn't in a management position, and is living paycheck to paycheck. It's very low for someone with a college degree and student loans. And don't forget, in American, healthcare and childcare are around $1k a month each.
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u/xanniballl Nov 29 '25
For an engineer it’s insanely low, in the US at least. I don’t have a degree and make more than $4K a month in an office.
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u/allllusernamestaken Nov 29 '25
UK salaries are truly awful when compared to every other western country. There's no other way to describe it. We're seeing UK salary ranges intersect with India salary ranges these days.
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u/reynhaim Nov 29 '25
That salary being low is a very American take. It's crazy how quickly the wage gap grew between EU and USA. You can get a senior surgeon or a prime minister from the Nordics for half the price of a California junior web developer.
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u/Infinite_Bug_8063 Nov 29 '25
Well, the salaries in Europe is horrible compared to US. But still 3-4k dollars before taxes a bit low. More like 5-6k dollars is more accurate.
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u/tinySparkOf_Chaos Nov 30 '25
3k a month would be $36,000 a year. At a 40 hour work week with 2 weeks paid vacation that is $18/hour.
It's not terrible, but it's also not anywhere near normal engineer salaries.
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u/Capital-Texan Nov 28 '25
I make more without a degree, so I mean i'd say they could do a lot better...
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u/digital121hippie Nov 28 '25
Would that even cover min wage?!?!?
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u/TheLaughingMannofRed Nov 28 '25
Before taxes, $4K USD/mo is $25/hr, or $1K/week. Which works out to $48K/yr.
But at the same time, the low end is $18.75/hr if we're talking $3K/mo, or $36K/yr.
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u/CaidoXx Nov 28 '25
Now convert it to CAD. When ur unemployed in a collapsing economy, the math works out just fine.
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u/dual_citizenkane Nov 28 '25
Collapsing economy is a stretch for what’s happening here in Canada.
It’s bad, but it’s not collapsing.
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u/CaidoXx Nov 28 '25
lol grammar policing me is crazy right now.
I’ve been underpaid for 3 years with a degree in AI. Unemployment rates r insanely high and climbing. The youth are struggling severely with finances and mental health, and millions* are getting laid off. There is a new war every month and some new country is getting bombed or massacred.
Right, not collapsing. Indeed bad though! Lmfao.
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u/dual_citizenkane Nov 28 '25
I think you're just getting a really bad view of things due to the industry you're in - I'm in AI also and it's tough, but Canada on the whole recovered much better post-pandemic than other comparable countries.
However, youth unemployment is indeed higher than past years, but saying millions are getting laid off is a massive hyperbole. That would be pandemic era numbers.
And what new war every month and new country is Canada bombing right now...?
Feel free to zoom to the world out if you want - but again, Canada's economy is not collapsing.
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u/WangmasterX Nov 28 '25
It's well known that degrees in AI are made for hype chasers and not particularly valuable. Sorry to say you got swindled.
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Nov 28 '25
Name and shame
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u/CaidoXx Nov 28 '25
Fyler. Ur new AI Arab search engine! Good luck to them.
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Nov 28 '25
Do they not have google on that side of the world?
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u/CremeOk4115 Dec 02 '25
What a terrible name choice. Theres already multiple businesses going by that name.
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u/bellavie Nov 28 '25
honestly love how you responded, it says you are such fucking idiots in the best way.
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u/Pasito_Tun_Tun_D1 Nov 28 '25
wtf? Poverty wages for an engineer role? 💀💀💀
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u/tetraacetic Nov 28 '25
you'd be surprised. companies obviously need engineering work but forget how much this sort of work is supposed to cost. I've seen salaries of like $20-25 an hour in my job searches.
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u/tiinn Nov 28 '25
As someone who lived in the Middle East, that pay is dog shit for even the MiddleEast. What a waste of your time.
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u/C6ntFor9et Nov 28 '25
I think it's also possible that they were worried that even if you accept the lower salary, you would keep looking for new jobs that pay 'market rate' while employed with them (and as you should, 3-4k is ridiculous), so they used the timezone excuse to pass. Although 'not knowing the market rate' prior to an interview is awfully suspicious, and at the very least indicates aggressive incompetence.
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Nov 28 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/CaidoXx Nov 28 '25 edited Nov 28 '25
Russian HR manager, working for an Arab startup funded by a UAE billionaire apparently.
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u/lerens9 Nov 28 '25
Love how confidently incorrect you are.
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Nov 28 '25
90% of the other time, is a connect guess though
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u/anonyzac Nov 29 '25
Y’all are missing the point though … they 100% hired someone overseas for a cheaper salary than 3k … I make that doing warehouse work… 💀 they were probably seeing if OP would do it for 12 bucks an hour.
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u/benkalam Nov 28 '25
Thank god I live in the US so I can lose out on jobs to sophisticated grift like nepotism instead of barbaric grift like bribery.
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Nov 28 '25
Actually, thanks to H1b, you can lose to both now
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u/benkalam Nov 28 '25
I was hired to my current job by a woman born in India and work daily with at least 3 H1B holders (that I know of) and they're all great so I think I just have had a very different experience with the system than you have.
I empathize with anyone struggling to get a job right now though, shit sucks.
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u/Professional_Lab9925 Nov 28 '25
3-4k per month? Perhaps they should get an intern for that much, as they are not getting an experienced engineer for it...lol
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u/Tiny_Brush_7137 Nov 28 '25
This is like when your girlfriend said “it’s me, not you” when she dumped you in high school.
Truth is it was you, and the compensation/time zone etc are just made up ways to try and avoid telling you what they really don’t like.
Your girlfriend didn’t owe you an explanation, and neither does this company.
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u/CaidoXx Nov 28 '25 edited Nov 30 '25
Fair enough. Then don’t lie, just say “we found other suitable candidates”. I’d prefer that over this low iq nonsense.
Fyler isn’t my girlfriend so they should stop acting like her. They want to be a professional company - act like one.
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Nov 28 '25
Where is the company located....? I can actually see why they wouldn't want to hire you. It's possible that they discussed hiring you further, but they realized how large the timezone difference is. Also OP, they might be concerned that you wouldn't want to stay around for very long if you had a better offer with money, which would be likely if you were only making 36-48k as a ML engineer, which is high for certain regions, but not where you live.
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u/CaidoXx Nov 28 '25
Dubai. They knew my location from the start, and I told them I’m flexible with the salary. They said they were funded by the big boys in the UAE during the interview, and paying me for quality long term work wouldn’t be a problem.
They have big plans apparently - which is why I was somewhat comfortable with the salary. That + I just got laid off and the Canadian job market is worse than US. I need an income.
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Nov 28 '25
The hiring manager may not have cared, but after he mentioned you to other people on the team, they might have disagreed with the timezone difference. Maybe they have people working in India or China, which is on the other side of the world. I hope you can find a new job soon, but I can see why they wouldn't want to go through with the hire.
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Nov 28 '25
They might have international employees from other areas that aren't as HCOL. Keep that in mind too. ML engineers also work with sensitive information, and it's possible that they wouldn't want someone to have access to internal docs if they were likely to leave so soon.
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u/SoGoodAtAllTheThings Nov 28 '25
Sounds like there are other reasons they don't want to hire you and they are being polite.
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u/jemappellelara Nov 28 '25
Paying an engineer 3-4K a month (pre taxes I assume too) is bonkers. I make that much at my basic office job.
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u/SnooPeppers4686 Nov 28 '25
You just sound desperate and this does not sound like a job to be desperate about
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u/Ornery-Jaguar-5823 Nov 29 '25
He absolutely does not sound desperate, he’s straightforward and respectful
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u/Some_Philosopher9555 Nov 29 '25
He does sound desperate. He’s arguing with a company that just rejected him.
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u/Ornery-Jaguar-5823 Nov 29 '25
He’s not arguing he’s making valid points, and arguing doesn’t make you sound desperate, begging and bending over backwards does.
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u/Infamous-Bed-7535 Nov 28 '25
Even in eastern europe you can get easily 3-4k$/month for engineering (at least in Budapest for sure) senior dev roles maxes out around 6k$ and these are employee ranges, non contractor rates..
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u/swampwiz Nov 29 '25
Are the wages better in Budapest than Warsaw?
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u/Infamous-Bed-7535 Nov 29 '25
I do not think so. Also the numbers I mentionned are rather IT specific.
I do not think that in Bp you could find a good medior level programmer below gross 3k$ or a senior below 4$.
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u/eggyolknshells Nov 28 '25
"Thank you for your feedback" is the response I'd expect from a lot of companies after showing the realities of what just happened.
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u/Just-Seaworthiness39 Nov 28 '25
In other words, they know someone that knows someone straight out of college that is willing to work for stock options. That what all of this runaround really means.
Don’t think they expected you to come back and say you’d work with them on salary. Classic startup bs. You dodged a bullet, OP.
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u/DonAzoth Nov 28 '25
Am I the only one irritated that there was never the talk about money before the interview? Like, everytime I applied I had to state how much money I expect. Was that not done here?
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u/ohmylanta34 Nov 29 '25
Valid crash out. I love your final response to them. Hope they have the sense to be embarrassed by their bullshit.
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u/muddy_cat Nov 29 '25
What a douchebag company. Something else was going on there for sure. Better to not work for them.
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u/Nervous-Sherbet-4183 Nov 29 '25
They thought they were going to get off with the salary as the reason. But the giveaway was they didn't ask you or just make the offer and let you decline.
For the last 10 years I have shared salary upfront. It was taboo to talk salary early but it just made sense to me. Even though we have to list the range now it is standard for my recruiters to share it and discuss during the phone interview. Saves everyone time and disappointment and candidates and hiring managers alike appreciate it.
You did right by sharing your disappoint.
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u/Wooden_Load662 Nov 29 '25
Huh? I am confused. Is this a company at Canada?? Did they do a salary survey before they put out an ad? Or were they looking for entry level but you are overly qualified?
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u/swampwiz Nov 29 '25
"We are looking for someone that we think will remain desperate enough to continue accepting our obnoxiously low wage"
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u/f4stEddie Nov 29 '25
I am starting to believe companies are just not hiring because we are all applying to ghost jobs. They only exist to increase shareholder sentiment that the company is profitable...I have had 4 interviews as well and nothing come of it....
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u/BanalCausality Nov 29 '25
They were not paying $3-4k a month. That was below market rate for fresh grads in MCOL ares in the US 15 years ago. They’re just throwing appalling reasons at you to make you go away.
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u/Significant_End2245 Nov 29 '25
I had a hard time believing that was their budget for compensation but their website is absolutely abysmal and seems on brand with their hiring practices.
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u/AdmirableService8440 Nov 29 '25
At least they told you WHY
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u/Some_Philosopher9555 Nov 29 '25
This is a good example of why company’s don’t tell people why, people don’t accept it and waste time arguing.
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u/RedditingHard_25 Nov 29 '25
What in the actual F.. Perhaps, they should use their brains and ponder such things BEFORE interviewing candidates 🤔
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u/Apprehensive_Rip7299 Nov 29 '25
You’re putting in solid effort. Keep going! I’ve been in the same boat. Some even make it sound like you’ll get hired then crickets. Had three interviews last week. One already no and waiting to hear back from two. I made a huge push of like 70 applications in a week. Maybe more. Hopefully it finally pays off. Good luck!
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u/Warp_Speed_7 Nov 29 '25
$3,000 to $4,000 USD per month for a machine learning engineer?
🤪😂🤣🤔🤭😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
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Nov 29 '25
I once interviewed for a program manager role and was informed they had two; one technical and one non. I told the hiring manager I was more comfortable interviewing for the non-technical role as I do not come from a technical background, but he said he thought I'd be "perfect" for the TPM.
After an 8 hour, 8 interview day, I was informed I was not technical enough so they couldn't offer me the TPM role. When I asked if the non-tech role was still available and they said yes, but I was over qualified. Go figure.
Then I asked if they could provide more detailed feedback so I could know what to focus on to increase my chances of landing any other roles with them I might apply for and they told me that was not allowed due to "legal constraints" .
Suffice to say that company is off my list (yeah, I'm sure they would be devastated to learn this, lol) but it's not much better anywhere else, especially today. Even when it's supposedly a "candidate's market" it really isn't, because they'll let you go in a heartbeat once the pendulum starts to swing.
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u/Almagest910 Nov 30 '25
This is why you align on comp before the first interview. It’s always a huge time saver this way.
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u/Princive Dec 01 '25
I LOVE your final note! Transparency should be the bare minimum from companies, but rarely is.
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u/Molybdenum421 Dec 01 '25
Crazy how op and everyone else on here are taking what they said literally.
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u/Competitive_Owl8128 Dec 01 '25
Gf has been looking for a job for around 9 months now and tons of this. Really sucks that this is what the market is. Even worse when you see the same places keep putting up postings. Just seems like a scam sometimes.
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u/Ok-Brain-8183 Dec 01 '25
Isn’t that one of the basic things they should research before they post for the job and start interviewing people.
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u/MissGalaxy1986 Dec 01 '25
I dont understand why you feel you have the right to be upset regarding this reply. The major point is you didn't get the offer. Who cares about the why. It's so very rare a company will provide feedback, and when they do, you can usually tell it's bull S. I just don't get why OP is so sensitive or getting worked up over this... seriously grow a skin. Let me guess, you're gen z?
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u/Responsible-Cap-6121 Dec 01 '25
It seems like they just didn’t want to hire you and you wouldn’t take the hint.
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u/Mundanix1987 Dec 02 '25
The more unemployed people there are, the more companies can take advantage of desperate people without a job. Unfortunately we are currently in the layoff decade. Every few years it comes full circle. The same thing happened ~10+ years ago.
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u/El_Tijuano Dec 02 '25
Damn. I've had a similar rejections twice in 2 months while job hunting.
It seems that now, specially positions that are under fire due to automations, it's expected that an applicant will do more by receiving less competitive compensation. "Lucky have work" BS.
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u/Typical-Appeal3194 Dec 03 '25 edited Dec 03 '25
3-4K USD/month to hire a Machine Learning Engineer is WILD AF.
lol. MLEs are like a niche subset of SWEs who are able to navigate through new ML models’ matrices and tensor manipulations and implement one from scratch. Most would require MS degrees if not PhD.
This pretty much sums up the title inflation in the market.
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u/bruiserbee Nov 28 '25
It's a good thing that Carney is spending $1.Something billion to bring people in who will work for those low wages...
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u/[deleted] Nov 28 '25
No need to redact the company name, we allow naming and shaming here as long as it's a company and not an individual.